Intersectionality in the Queer Community: Thursday Facilitator Discussion

On June 23, SGO DEI facilitator Dr. Victoria Verlezza led a discussion with other SGO Facilitators, Kia Rivera, and Rachel Sadler, on intersectionality in the queer community. Join us each month for a discussion with our DEI Facilitation team.

Victoria:
Hey, y’all, how are you? Welcome to our Intersectionality in the Queer Community LinkedIn Live, very excited to be here with my two colleagues. I’m Dr. Victoria Verlezza and I use pronouns she and her, and I’m an SGO DEI facilitator. And this morning, I am joined by two of my fantastic DEI facilitating teammates, DEI facilitator extraordinaire. I’ll kick it over, Rachel, would you mind introducing yourself?

Rachel S:
Hey, folks, my name is Rachel Sadler, I’m also a facilitator here at SGO. I use she/her pronouns, super excited to be here today and I will toss it over to Kia.

Kia:
Hi, everyone. My name’s Kia Rivera, I use she/her pronouns, and just really excited to get into this conversation and talk about the nuances within intersectionality within the queer community. So back to you, Victoria.

Victoria:
Thanks, Kia, thanks Rachel. So let’s kick it off a little bit with, who are we? How do we come to this conversation? Where are we coming from this morning? For me, I am queer. I use the term lesbian, I’ve been using that for a long time. I actually came out, forcibly came out, when I was 16, almost 17; it happened like two weeks before my 17th birthday. And only recently have started thinking about the term queer and, what does that mean politically? But also sexuality, and then gender, and then all of my other identities. It’s very interesting because autistic folks typically identify on the spectrum of rainbowness and/or are non-binary, so it’s really interesting to reconcile who I am and new pieces of myself. So that’s how I’m coming to this, what about you both? How are you showing up?

Kia:
I can go, Rachel. For me, I show up as a queer woman in color in this space, and I think queerness has evolved for me throughout time. I came out after college, which is deemed late in the journey in terms of your sexuality, but I really fell into compulsory heteronormative behavior at the time and didn’t think I was gay. And then found lesbian as a word that landed well for me, but evolved over time in terms of, like you brought up, Victoria, my political views, the way I view gender, the way I view gender norms within my relationships, also my platonic relationships with people I have in the queer community. And that’s really where I fell in love with the term queer overall and how I view myself and how I move through the world with all of those relationships with chosen family, with family structures as well. How about you, Rachel?

Rachel S:
Thanks. So I’m showing up as a straight woman that probably identifies as questioning in this space, so interested in how the conversation goes around folks that feel that type of, do I belong here? Do I not? Where do I fit in? Where am I landing on this spectrum? And then understanding that we don’t have necessarily this binary of just straight or gay, that there’s all these other things, and that that’s okay too. So I’m really curious to learn a little bit from you all while we’re here and also just share where I’m coming from as a person that doesn’t have your same experiences.

Victoria:
I love that. Thank you both. And I love, Rachel, you bringing in questioning, right? It’s not as cut and dry as one or the other, and I love that we have this ability to have a conversation that maybe feels cut and dry in other spaces, but it’s not. It’s messy, it’s nuanced, it’s complicated, and it’s not as easy as just a statement, it’s a “yes and”. And how do we create space within that queer community for folks who may or may not be firm? And understanding that our identities are fluid.

And just before we talk a little bit about some concepts, the queer community is anybody who self-identifies as lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, queer, questioning. So many different terms, right? Intersex. It’s a lot. And in a lot of cases, people will see the term LGBTQI A+, or LGBTQ+, or queer. So for our context, we’re just using the term queer as the overarching umbrella. So all folks are welcome in this conversation because it’s not as easy as yes or no. And I love that we’re talking about, it’s not as easy as this or that, there is a whole beautiful spectrum of it. Kia, do you want to talk a little bit about intersectionality as a concept and how that shows up?

Kia:
Yeah, there’s one thing I want to add about queer as a term and for the community.

Victoria:
Please.

Kia:
It was once used as a derogatory term, and I want to name that for folks, because those who are of older generations might be like, “Why are they using this term?” A lot of reclaiming has happened with the term queer, and to speak for the… I don’t want to speak for the whole community, but they use that as an umbrella term for the entire LGBTQ+ community sometimes. So I just want to name that we are using that in this space and not everyone has reclaimed it or wants to use it, so I just wanted to say that.

But intersectionality is an important concept when we’re talking about our identities. Especially in the queer community, it’s really important to remember that we bring different identities to this conversation, to our lives, as we move through the world. And we here at SGO use this framework to talk about the different aspects of our identities, how they combine, and how it creates modes of discrimination and/or privilege.

And this term was coined by Kimberlé Crenshaw in the 1980s to talk specifically about the experiences of black women in the US and the discrimination that they uniquely face based on those identities. So we have a picture up on the screen to show you how intersectionality might work with different identities. All of us on this conversation have different identities we are bringing up, and we’ll talk more about those. But I think it’s really important when we’re having these conversations, that we are nuanced human beings who… The way I move through the world is very different from the way Rachel has moved through the world and the way that Victoria has, based on our identities and the intersection of those and how we show up in this space and how we’re also perceived in that space too.

Victoria:
I love that you said perceived too, how other folks perceive how we’re moving through the world, and the ways in which we’ve experienced the world, and some of our socialization too. So I’m thinking a little bit about our socialization and if we want to go into that a little bit, what is our socialization, right? It’s who raises us, how we were raised, what we were raised to believe, the lens by which we view the world. And I’m curious, what are you all bringing to this conversation maybe around that or around anything that we’ve talked about up until this point in terms of our intersecting identities or what have you?

Rachel S:
I guess I’ll start. What immediately comes to mind for me is how you’re expected to perform gender. And throughout my life, I have just done the things that I want to do and I would get this pushback from family members or teachers who would say, “Girls don’t do those things. Girls don’t play baseball or get dirty or pick up frogs,” And my mom wanted me to play the piano and I played the guitar. And then as I got older, I did powder puff football in high school, and then I became amateur Muay Thai fighter, which I did for over 14 years. And that space is primarily dominated by men and the hierarchies and the rules that exist in that, because it’s a space that women are slowly entering. Shout out to Ronda Rousey for being one of the first women in MMA to be on the UFC, right? But before that, there was no conversation about women being in that space.

And so how are you performing your womanness? Is what I think about, and having masculine qualities or hobbies or ideas and how people frame that based on desirability, based on how people judge you, whether or not they think you’re a badass or whatever. And then the conversations that come up around that because you’re not performing your gender in the way that they think is appropriate, or they are enlightened by somebody coming forth and presenting it a little bit differently.

Kia:
I love that thought of gender in the way that we present ourselves in a space, and I think that’s also inherently queer to go against the norm when it comes to gender roles too in some ways. I recognize not everyone who goes against gender norms identifies as queer, but in my view of queerness, that is definitely a piece of the puzzle there.

I think something that I am challenged by in this community is definitely the intersection of race and sexual orientation, and how that comes up for me a lot as a mixed race person, and how I perceive sexuality, and how I’m also perceived as a queer woman. I think that that’s something that I’m constantly thinking about within, what’s quote unquote “palatable” within the community? Is it white gay men? Is it just whiteness in general? Is it co-oping queer/trans women’s slang? Those sort of things, and how that makes me feel valid or invalid in a space, in particular queer spaces. Especially around pride too, I’m always like, I don’t know how I feel about this. This pride parade, it’s all white people, I don’t see people who look like me. And obviously, the first pride was a riot led by black trans women, so that is a really important piece of our history that I think gets lost in white supremacy to this day. What about you, Victoria?

Victoria:
All of what y’all are saying resonates so hard for me because, okay, so I was raised born again Christian and very much in that performative girl space, and I, for a long time, thought the way that I dress or I move or present myself would tell people my sexuality. So even so far as, y’all, I didn’t own a pair of Birkenstocks until six years ago, because the stereotype is lesbians wear Birkenstocks, right? And so, I so badly didn’t want to be that lesbian, and I only had one model. And I remember her name, she was my gym teacher. I didn’t want to be the stereotype, because there was only one model for me growing up.

So I think a lot about how I’m unlearning that, even still, I didn’t even own flannel until about five years ago because of the same thing. I own a RAV4. Subarus, I know are… Kia can tell you all about Subarus and the history of. But for me, even my RAV4 was a big deal. So there’s so much unlearning, and yet I’ve been out for almost 20 years. I think that there’s a lot of unlearning within the community and I’m bringing a lot of that even still. Being out for a long time, I still think about these things. I think about how I show up in the world and how people are reading me or not reading me or putting me into whatever category. I’m really excited to be sharing this space with you both and our different ideas.

Rachel S:
I think it’s just wild that there are these… What do we call… These tokens, or these artifacts of queerness, or… And you can put anything, of blackness, of anything that’s like, “Well, this is a thing that belongs to this group,” and there’s the stereotypes that go around that artifact when it’s just like, “These are just things.”

For example, I went shopping with my mother over the weekend to the outlets. And since it’s pride month, there’s all these rainbow things. And I’m a Rainbow Brite kid from the 80s, I love it. And so I’m like, “Fantastic,” all the things, because there’s so much color. And I had to explain to my mom, she was like, “Why are there rainbows everywhere? I don’t get it.” SO I had to explain to her what pride was, and then she’s like, “So you’re going to wear these things, what does that mean?” I was like, “It means that I’m an ally and I like rainbows.” And it doesn’t necessarily mean that this is just a representation of this thing only, it can be, like you said before, a “yes and”.

And so the fact that we have these random things that people are ascribing meaning to, and then they make decisions when they see that. So there’s a bias that may be associated, and they make the decision, and then what comes after that is fascinating to me. When you told me the Subaru story, I was like, “That is wild,” because I was looking at the Subaru because I could put my kayak on top, and I had no idea that there was that association at all.

Kia:
I feel like we have to do a deep dive into this history of Subaru one time for folks on LinkedIn Live, but that definitely resonates with me. And even for me growing up, the only queer people that were out for me were white folks. So how did those people present? How did they show up in a space? And that was really hard for me when I was younger, when I was, I think, more questioning of like, “Well, I can’t be queer because I’m not the lesbians who live down the street from my grandparents who are doctors,” and that was my only two out women, queer in the space, that I knew of. And I was like, “I’m this little brown kid running around town, not having any idea that that’s just one facet of a larger community,” and I think that you both really hit on that really well.

And even what we associate with queerness, like when it comes to a Subaru, I think in my mind, I always wanted one when I grew up. I don’t have one currently, but that is still the dream, is to own a Subi. But I think it’s really interesting, and seeing how those things become part of mainstream culture and also moves the inherent queerness that comes with it too sometimes.

I’m a big fan of TikTok, and there’s a huge subculture of TikTok around Subarus and bi-wife energy when it comes to husbands of bi women. Like all of those things that I think are so important to these conversations, but are also so nuanced around, again, who is palatable, who can be consumed by mainstream media when it does come to queerness.

Victoria:
I love that you brought up the bi-wife energy from TikTok. And then thinking about race, but also gender and sex and how, is it as palatable if it was bi-husband energy, right? So if a wife… I’m hoping I’m saying this right. If a woman is married to a man, but he’s bi or pan, how does that create space? And within the queer community, are folks in heterosexual presenting relationships as accepted? There’s a lot around pride and showing up with your opposite-sex partner, or perceived opposite-sex partner, and not knowing relationships.

Kia:
Yeah, I love that. Or even across races too, when it comes to bi ness and fluidity too, I think that that’s also something that’s been talked a lot more about. And I’m not saying people of color are more inherently homophobic by any means, but I think when it comes to religion, that you brought up, Victoria, too, that that’s a lot of unlearning some communities have to do when it comes to the fluidity of sexual orientation and gender norms.

Victoria:
Absolutely. It sounds like we’re talking a little bit about challenges. So what are the challenges maybe within the community or some of the challenges associated with the conversation we’re having? Who historically has been visible or not? It feels like that’s where we’re moving. Any thoughts around that?

Kia:
Yeah, I think when we think about challenges within the community, I think it’s around power and privilege too. So we talked a little bit around gender, gender norms, whiteness in a space when it comes to race too, I think. I hear a lot of conversations around this time of year, especially, around pride being whitewashed, and whether that be around capitalism or pride parades even, who is in a space, and who is creating that space, and who is it meant for, when we have, again, historically, to thank black trans women for the first pride being a riot and really moving that forward? And I think a lot of what I also think about when it comes to pride in the queer community and justice within the community, it’s more than just marriage equality. That’s a piece of the puzzle, but housing, trans healthcare, gender-affirming healthcare, those sort of things are also top of mind for me and pose some of the challenges within the community too. [inaudible 00:18:08].

Victoria:
I was just looking at Rachel to see if she was going to jump in. I had a thought about when you said marriage equality. Even marriage equality is not necessarily marriage equality, right? So like disabled folks, if they get married to somebody, they could lose health insurance or their disability benefits, so marriage equality is even so much bigger than the queer community or folks in same sex, same loving relationships.

Some challenges for me are the unlearning of so much of our socialization and understanding that one voice is not necessarily better than another, and that competing victimization or the hierarchy of oppression that can play out sometimes, I think, in the community. And it’s hard because there’s even intergroup stuff, right? There’s bi phobia, there’s all kinds of racism that can exist, and how are we showing up for each other without perpetuating other systems within our own community?

Some challenges for me are the unlearning of so much of our socialized understanding that one voice is not necessarily better than another, and that competing victimization or the hierarchy of oppression that can play out in the community. And it’s hard because there’s even intergroup stuff too. There’s bi phobia, there’s all kinds of racism that can exist. How are we showing up for each other without perpetuating other systems within our own community?

Dr. Victoria Verlezza

Rachel S:
Mm-hmm, for sure. And going back again, I think about the performative element of it. So we have these mediated representations of queer folks, in particular, you think of black men, like Lafayette from True Blood or RuPaul or any of the characters that are very stereotypically gay that fit that trope. And then, so when you meet folks and they don’t embody that, then people are confused or you have to justify something. And now that we’re getting into a space where we’re starting to see more representations of what it looks like, and I really like when we have characters that present as something that’s very stereotypically masculine and also queer or gay so that you can understand that it doesn’t look like one thing, there’s so many different ways that this presents itself.

And so by having shows, such as P-Valley, that demonstrate different types of queerness so that people understand it doesn’t just look like drag queens, it doesn’t just look like flamboyantly gay folks, it doesn’t just look like whatever you saw in Sex and the City or whatever TV show. There’s a broad spectrum of folks that present a way that you think of one thing, and then they’re something completely different. And I’m really happy that we’re in a space where we’re starting to see that. But prior to that, people would get questions of like, “Well, who’s the man in the relationship, and who’s the woman?” The whole idea is that that binary does not exist in framing that in your brain as this or that. It does not allow for the depth of folks.

Victoria:
Believe it or not, I still get that question. Sorry, Kia.

Kia:
No, I was going to say that really resonates with me around, who is the man in the relationship? Who wears the pants?

Victoria:
All the time.

Kia:
If you have kids, what are they going to call you? Or like, when I was getting married, Victoria, I’m interested if you get this question a lot too, as you’re starting to plan a wedding of, who’s going to wear a dress and who isn’t? Or who’s going to say the vows? Or are you each going to have bridesmaids, what does that look ? And I’m like, why are we getting these questions?

Victoria:
We can’t even really get past the “who’s the man?” question, like who’s going to wear the pants? I also have what I would consider traditional engagement ring, so I get a lot of questions in the world because… I’m not sure how people perceive me, but I think in some situations I am not perceived as queer or gay or lesbian or whatever word. I think I am perceived as straight in a lot of situations. I wouldn’t say that I’m passing, because I’m not actively trying to pass, I’m being perceived a particular kind of way. Just being seen and with this thing, it’s like, “Who are you, and who’s the man? Who wears the pants?”

We get asked a lot about gender roles, like who does what?

Kia:
Mm-hmm, yes, yes.

Victoria:
Why? Just because I don’t take the trash out does not mean that I am this or that. And I like that we’re talking about this, because we have to break that binary. And the lens that we all have is because of how we were raised and who raised us and all of that.

Kia:
Yeah, it’s unlearning all that heteronormativity that we learned, that every relationship has to have this set of rules and everything really has to be gendered in X, Y, and Z way in order for a relationship to work or make sense. And I think that that is something I’ve also had to do a lot of unlearning in my own relationship of like, sometimes we own a house and sometimes I am like, “Damn, I wish there was a man to do X, Y, and Z thing,” but that’s like, “No, I can do it. I can go on YouTube. I can learn how to put a light fixture in.” And it’s doing all of that unlearning of like, “I don’t necessarily need X, Y, and Z gender in my life to make me more competent as a homeowner or doing these home reno projects, etc.,” but I love that… I don’t love it, but, Victoria, I loved our shared commonality around these questions and also the work that we have to do for ourselves, even within our own relationships, to make sure we are continuously going against the norm and what’s perceived of us.

Rachel S:
Kia, as someone who dates men, they don’t come pre-wired to know how to do those things. You don’t even know how many times I’ve had to go and fix something that a man done broke because he’s supposed to know how to do it and he didn’t.

Kia:
That’s good to know. I’m glad my YouTubeing skills are definitely coming in good for me.

Rachel S:
[inaudible 00:24:11].

Victoria:
I love that. So what do you all think it would look or how would it be if we start to break down any of these power dynamics or stereotypes? I think a lot of what we’re talking about still very much exists, so how do we start? Or could we start? What does it look like to you?

Rachel S:
Well, we always talk about… What is the thing that you say, Victoria, that white supremacy is the water, not the shark, or something like that? Can you say that for me?

Victoria:
Yeah, white supremacy is the water, it’s not the shark?

Rachel S:
Oh, that’s… Okay. [inaudible 00:24:55].

Victoria:
You said it exactly right. Yeah, you said it.

Rachel S:
So many things are rooted in white supremacy, or patriarchy, capitalism, all of these things, right? So there’s this or that, not a “yes and”. The monetization and capitalizing off of a movement, like the putting rainbows on bags, which to me is problematic because you’re monetizing a literal movement that’s about life or death for some folks, and then looking at the ways that these certain characteristics were stolen from a group of people. So this over performativeness of your stereotypical gay men, for example, of language that’s been stolen from black women and how that’s an expectation now of how you’re performing, whatever, homosexuality. And then if you don’t, then what does that look like? Then people tend to invalidate your experience because you’re not playing the role that they’ve been taught you should play and deconstructing all of that.

And so whenever we get to this part of a conversation, we’re like, “Well, how much time do you have? Because it starts here, and then…” So it’s like peeking at all the different parts of the historical whitewashing of something, capitalism being involved in it, the stealing of things from black folk, which is what historically has been done, and then adding the layers of, also, there’s not a binary, there’s multiple things. And the opportunity folks have to broaden their perception, I think, might be a good starting point, but I’m not entirely sure.

Kia:
Yeah, I love that idea, Rachel. I think about my own relationship of maybe doing a deep dive of, what do we want to bring to our relationship? And unlearning all the patterns and, again, gender roles, or even what love looks for our relationship and our family’s relationship and our friendships. And that’s, for me, how I identify with queerness, is the chosen family I have is so close, and the love that I have for the people in my life is so deep. And that wasn’t learned for me through the cycle of socialization in the typical way of my hetero parents, I learned that from fellow queers. And watching community love in that way, completely radicalized the way I look at love and self-care and community-care. And I think that that’s so important when it comes to the unlearning of these power dynamics of things, is really just setting the tone for how you want your life and your family makeup maybe to be, and really thinking about how that might fit into maybe the LGBTQ community or even not, because I think there’s also a way allies can destroy these power dynamics too.

Victoria:
Wow, y’all. Wow. It was deep and so good. And it made me think of Bell Hooks’s All About Love and, how are we embodying? And something Rachel said really sticks with me, how are we challenging those mind bugs? How are we really looking at the way that we’re seeing the world? And rather than just assuming what we know about people, just creating space for that binary not to exist, and just asking and meeting people where they are. Rather than assuming somebody is married to this person or that person, why don’t we just ask, “How’s your partner? How’s your spouse?” We don’t even have to use the gendered language, or we don’t even have to make the assumption.

This has slight to do with LGBTQ/queer community because it could fit under anything, right? We also assume that folks are monogamous. We don’t know a whole lot about people’s relationship status, and are they in polyamorous relationships, or what their family makeup even is? And for me, a big piece of that breaking it down, or deconstructing it, is really learning, just to reemphasize what Rachel said, colonization, colonial mindset, white supremacy taught us that we need sexualities, and that’s not the case. We don’t need them, we don’t need to have these labels. We don’t need all of these things to exist, and it’s like the chicken or the egg, which one came first? And how do we dismantle it?

In my opinion, we have to dismantle ourselves in order to dismantle the system. So how do I break free of my binary thinking? How do I think outside of what I thought I knew? How do I read all the things possible to learn what I don’t know? And how do I have these conversations, even if they’re not clear, and if they’re messy or uncomfortable? We see the world very differently and we move through the world very differently, but I value your perspective so much, and I’m just so thankful to know you both.

Rachel S:
Aw.

Victoria:
Aw.

Kia:
Likewise.

Victoria:
Aw. So what do you think would be on an ally wishlist? Or what does allyship even look like, maybe on a daily interaction, at work, in the larger world, what does that look like for you both? Or how are you thinking about those actions?

Rachel S:
I think having language and the space to make mistakes. And as the ally, you have to be willing to do that, and you have to be willing to be corrected and not get defensive, and willing to do the research and learn. I always say, “Well, it’s Blue Ivy’s internet now.” We all have access to Blue Ivy’s internet, so you can go look for the things, and there’s so much out there that there’s really no excuse.

But having language to put the things, and having the ability to make mistakes with the understanding that it’s not intentional. Some people will go into a space like this and make a mistake and then not take accountability for it, and then get defensive and put off by things, but there’s so much that we’re learning that it’s impossible to know all of the things. And just trusting yourself to move forward with this open mind of, I think, being inquisitive.

Kia:
Yeah, I love that idea of being inquisitive, asking questions, and the grace of, people are going to make mistakes. Even people within the queer community are making mistakes, and, within the community, we have to be allies to those who have differing identities from ourselves too. So I think that’s also really important, is allyship within the queer community. And I think that’s something that I personally feel really passionate about because I’m a firm believer in “we’re not free until we’re all free,” and I think that that really needs to be something within the queer community that’s talked about a lot more.

But for me, I think what I want out of my allies is queering up their media, taking in queer media, reading books, watching TV shows, relating to queer people in that way, and seeing that we’re not a quote unquote “other” too, because I feel like that’s still the norm in how people talk about queerness.

And I love the idea, and I know Victoria loves this too, of inclusive language when you’re asking folks questions about maybe their partners, their family dynamics, their family makeup. And then also policy wise, for an organization, I love inclusive policies when it comes to parental leave, family leave, partner benefits. Those sort of things are what I really want to see to know that I’m valued as a member of an organization, and that someone somewhere who has maybe more power privilege than I do is also thinking about me and thinking about my community as well. How about you, Victoria?

Victoria:
I really love what you both said. And I really want folks to take that minute and just be intentional and deliberate with language and trying to think beyond what they thought they knew and really try to expand their mindset. I had a conversation recently about even the word “queer”, and recognizing that the way I call myself is how I would like to be referred. And it’s not the golden rule, it’s the platinum rule. So treat me how I want to be treated and hear what I’m saying rather than ascribing a term or a gender norm or a gender role to me. Just hear me and accept me as I am.

I think something that I also really would love is less tolerance and more acceptance, generally speaking. I think we can get there, eventually, maybe. And the new reboot of Queer Eye for… It’s just called Queer Eye now. The new reboot talks about that. It’s not just about tolerance, it’s about acceptance and really changing the face of what queerness looks like and all these multiple people. And the support. I think just showing up for each other and trying. So at work, just try, especially if you’re connecting with folks and you make a mistake. I love what Rachel said, you’re going to make a mistake. We all make mistakes. Kia said it too, we make mistakes within our own communities, within our own identity groups, within our own workplaces. And we saw Lizzo made a mistake recently, and she owned it and we moved on from it. Really good example of how we can make mistakes and do better. Is there anything in the final couple of minutes you all want to leave our viewers with? Something to chew on or something to think about or an action item?

Kia:
I think my biggest thing is celebrate pride outside of June and show up for queer people outside of June, especially with all the anti-trans bills being passed right now, showing up for folks in that way. That’s something I’m really munching on this month and munch on all year round.

Rachel S:
Yeah, and with the spirit of that, I think about formally being in the education space with kids and letting kids be who they are and let them tell you who they are and then respect that; not outing kids, if that’s not something that they want, and how traumatic that can be, and how the support of one adult can change the trajectory of someone’s life. And so there’s so much going on for everybody, but kiddos figuring out who they are, and if they have all these things that are telling them, “No,” or, “You’re wrong,” they just need somebody to tell them that they’re right and protect and love them. So that’s what I’m thinking about and hoping that folks will start to do more of.

Victoria:
I love that. No, I do. Because as a formerly queer kid, gosh, had somebody said that, or even my inner child. Rachel just gave my inner child a little hug.

Rachel S:
Aw. I’m always here to give people’s inner child a little hug.

Victoria:
Well, they need it. I love it. Y’all, thank you so much for being here with us and sharing space and being you and opening up and having this conversation. I greatly appreciate you and everybody who viewed in today.

Kia:
Thank you, Victoria, for leading us through this space.

Victoria:
Thank you. Hey, my pleasure.