Lessons from a Million-Member Community with Caroline Dettman from The Female Quotient

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Lessons from a Million-Member Community with Caroline Dettman from The Female Quotient
Breaking BarriersDiversity, Equity, and Inclusion
About The Episode Transcript

In this podcast episode, Rachel and Felicia discuss the progress made in terms of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) in companies and society, three years after the murder of George Floyd. They acknowledge the positive changes they have seen, but also note the challenges companies face in prioritizing DEI initiatives. The hosts introduce their guest, Caroline Dettman, Chief Marketing Officer and Chief Creative Officer at The Female Quotient, an organization that promotes gender equality and inclusion. They discuss a range of topics, including the importance of prioritizing diversity, the need for more support for parents and caregivers, and the power of collective action.

Rachel Murray (00:00:08): Hi, Felicia.

Felicia Jadczak (00:00:09): Hi, Rachel.

Rachel Murray (00:00:10): Happy June.

Felicia Jadczak (00:00:11): Happy June.

Rachel Murray (00:00:13): Yeah.

Felicia Jadczak (00:00:14): Halfway through the year.

Rachel Murray (00:00:15): Yeah. Yeah, we're getting there, and it's a really interesting time, because we are-

Felicia Jadczak (00:00:22): Say more.

Rachel Murray (00:00:24): I know. I love that you always coached me to say more. Thank you.

Felicia Jadczak (00:00:27): My facilitator.

Rachel Murray (00:00:27): I know I love it.

Felicia Jadczak (00:00:29): My facilitator phrase.

Rachel Murray (00:00:30): It's a good one. Yeah, we're three years after the murder of George Floyd and just the massive protests that happened. It was three years ago, and I think we've been asking ourselves, "How much has changed, both nationally, globally, within companies?" Have we seen progress in some ways? Has there been less? And I'm sure we are not the only ones thinking about this. Yeah, so we wrote a blog post that came out a couple of weeks ago or a week, whatever time is.

Felicia Jadczak (00:01:06): We are in the time machine, so who even knows? But yes, there is an on-the-anniversary, there is a blog post out there at that point.

Rachel Murray (00:01:14): There is.

Felicia Jadczak (00:01:15): Yeah. Also, we've written a lot in the three years since this initially happened, but yeah, I know you and I have been talking a lot and reflecting recently around what's changed, what hasn't changed. And from my perspective, I think a, it's wild that three years have passed, because it feels simultaneously like 10 years, and also it was yesterday in some sense. I think, first of all, that's wild, and I think from my perspective, putting the DEI practitioner hat on, I think there's been a lot of shifts as far as general awareness, education.

(00:01:51): I think we're seeing a lot more people who've been sort of called in to this work, especially folks who are for more dominant groups. So white folks, people who've just never thought or had to deal with some of these issues before. So that's all been very positive in a lot of ways. I think my social media feeds are full of people who are practicing allyship and talking about stuff every day, where I can't remember it being so prevalent before. But on the other hand, the reality is that there's been a backslide in a lot of these areas, and you can probably attest to that more than anyone, because you run business development for us, and so [inaudible 00:02:28] real front. You've seen that firsthand, right?

Rachel Murray (00:02:30): Yeah. Yeah. It's really been interesting, because before the summer of 2020, we would have conversations with folks, and they want to do a workshop, they want to do a webinar, maybe they want to do something for the retreat, they want to do something small. Then, I just remember so distinctly in summer of 2020, all of a sudden the language just shifted to, "How do I fight white supremacy at my company? How can we be an anti-racist organization?" And you could just feel it. I could feel it, this palpable desire that was also really probably not so great to fix it immediately, which is, as we all know, impossible. And so now, three years later, the conversations have shifted again. "Our budgets are getting cut. Our people are really busy. We don't really have time. We really have to understand-"

Felicia Jadczak (00:03:26): "Get it all done in 45 minutes. Thanks very much."

Rachel Murray (00:03:28): "Please can we solve everything in 45 minutes?" Yeah, and we understand that it's a struggle. Economically, everything feels very uncertain as well. So we absolutely get that, and I love what Felicia said. I say, "We meet them where they're at," and then Felicia lovingly says, "And we bring them along."

Felicia Jadczak (00:03:46): Yeah. I mean, because I think that piece is so important, because it's not just about being like, "Oh. You're a terrible, racist person," and then letting it sit there, because you've got to also say, "How can I help this person be better? How can I help this company shift, rethink, or reframe?"

Rachel Murray (00:04:03): But to be clear, we do not ever say that to anyone. We do not shame anyone.

Felicia Jadczak (00:04:08): No shame or blame, but a lot of calling in, sometimes calling out. There's all sorts of ways to come to the table. Yeah, it's been interesting, because I think, to your point, there's been a lot of shifts kind of backwards a little bit, right? And it's disheartening, and I get it, because I think what we're really seeing is a lot of diversity fatigue, and it's certainly not a new concept. I think Atlassian came out with this concept, gosh, years before 2020. But I really feel like a lot of individuals, a lot of organizations, are hitting that wall and just getting to that point of thinking, "This work is hard, and I don't want to deal with this anymore, and I've got other problems on my plate."

(00:04:47): And so we're seeing folks in DEI roles being laid off at higher rates than any other job function right now. We're seeing budgets being slashed. We can see that firsthand, and we've also seen a lot of data around that. We're also just seeing people thinking, "This is not a priority for me anymore, and I don't want to work on this stuff." I get it. You get it. It's hard work. We're tired too. But I think this is what we've talked about for so long, is when we get to this point, this is where you have to work even harder, and that's just a hard reality for people to deal with.

Rachel Murray (00:05:20): The gym analogy just works so well all the time with this. Doing those workouts, consistency. Get tired, you've got to push through it. Hit that wall, you've got to push through it.

Felicia Jadczak (00:05:32): Yeah, yeah. I'm not a runner anymore, but you've got to push through so you can hit the runner's high. That's what we're all chasing.

Rachel Murray (00:05:38): Exactly.

Felicia Jadczak (00:05:39): Whatever the equivalent of the DEI runner's high would be.

Rachel Murray (00:05:42): The runner's high of equity, everyone being treated equally. I've been thinking a lot too about, I think we've heard this argument a lot of like, 'Oh. There's a fear. There's a scarcity mindset around like, "Oh. Someone's going to take a piece of the pie," and sure, okay. Yes, you have a whole pie. Someone takes a little piece of it. I've been lately been thinking about it that it's not really the case. And I've been thinking about it like, it seems to me as though some folks have 20 pies, and what we're saying is, "Maybe you can share a pie, and if you share a pie, then maybe that person can create more pie, and then we all have more pie and-"

Felicia Jadczak (00:06:26): And we have to go to the gym. No. I love a good food analogy, because I like food. And if anyone's not familiar with what Rachel's alluding to, there's sort of like a classic statement, which I think you see a lot, which is equal rights for others doesn't mean fewer rights for you.

Rachel Murray (00:06:39): Right.

Felicia Jadczak (00:06:40): It's not pie. It's not like, "Oh. You've got to give up your rights."

Rachel Murray (00:06:43): Exactly.

Felicia Jadczak (00:06:43): So that other people have rights. Now, what I can also say though is, leaning even further into the pie analogy, I think what we see is there is this, I think, whether it's justified or not, this mentality, especially from folks who are used to having a lot of privileges, a lot of rights, and a lot of benefits, is that there's a greediness to it almost, right? And to me, that's why I sometimes get stuck on when I think about this pie approach, which is, "Oh. I want the whole pie for myself, and I can't be bothered to give you even a sliver." If you think about it, again, going down this rabbit hole [inaudible 00:07:23] analogy, if you were to eat the whole pie by yourself, you'd become really sick.

Rachel Murray (00:07:25): True.

Felicia Jadczak (00:07:26): And that, I think, what we're seeing right now, is we're a sick society, and we need to redistribute it a little bit, but a lot of people are really used to it, and their stomachs have expanded, and I'm going to stop with this analogy now, because I think I can just go way too far. But I think you all know what I mean. It's tough to try to reframe that conversation, because people are so used to having, who have historically had a lot. And yeah, it's really hard to get folks out of that mindset, and we're talking about basic human rights here.

Rachel Murray (00:07:58): Yeah. The stuff that's going on in Florida is definitely a great case and point for that, but we don't need to break down all of the news, because we have other things to do, like talk with our incredible guests who we are so excited about.

Felicia Jadczak (00:08:14): Yes. I'm so excited about our guest today. I mean, we're excited about all our guests, but-

Rachel Murray (00:08:16): That's true.

Felicia Jadczak (00:08:17): We were really thrilled to catch up, because we'd actually worked with this person before in a professional capacity.

Rachel Murray (00:08:22): Love her.

Felicia Jadczak (00:08:24): It was great to kind of chat about all sorts of stuff, and she's a delight.

Rachel Murray (00:08:28): Yeah.

Felicia Jadczak (00:08:29): Yeah. Why don't you tell us who we're talking to?

Rachel Murray (00:08:31): I would be happy to do that. We are talking to the lovely, delightful, smart, and talented, Caroline Dettman. She is now the chief marketing officer and chief creative officer at The Female Quotient, which is an incredible organization, which we'll get into all the details about it, and we absolutely geeked out about the impact that they've been having. We talked about how critical it is for women to show up together and how impactful that can be. We also talked about, we'll give you a little sneaky-peeky. Felicia, do you want to share?

Felicia Jadczak (00:09:03): Yeah. I mean, maybe this is a spoiler alert, so if you don't want spoilers-

Rachel Murray (00:09:06): Spoilers.

Felicia Jadczak (00:09:07): ... Just fast-forward like 10 seconds, but we talked about her role in creating the, not even just famous, the infamous Dove Real Beauty campaign. Amazing. So anyway, welcome back, for those of you who just fast forwarded.

Rachel Murray (00:09:20): Wait. I'm like worried, because you said infamous, which usually means bad.

Felicia Jadczak (00:09:23): Well, I didn't mean it in a bad sense.

Rachel Murray (00:09:25): Okay.

Felicia Jadczak (00:09:26): I don't know. Maybe other people are like, "I don't even know what you're talking about," but it felt like just such a pivotal thing for me. So you'll learn more, and you'll hear more before we get to that point in the chat with Caroline, and we also talked about dogs, so we really ran the whole gamut of what we can possibly get into.

Rachel Murray (00:09:44): We did. It was great.

Felicia Jadczak (00:09:45): It was a great conversation.

Rachel Murray (00:09:47): Me too. We hope you think so too. Stay tuned for the end. Well, hello, Felicia.

Caroline Dettman (00:09:54): Hey, Rachel.

Rachel Murray (00:09:56): Hi. Caroline.

Caroline Dettman (00:09:58): Hello, ladies.

Felicia Jadczak (00:10:00): Hello, hello.

Caroline Dettman (00:10:00): So exciting.

Rachel Murray (00:10:02): Oh my gosh. It has been a minute, but before we even get into it, I have to do a proper, little baby intro. Caroline Dettman, you are the chief marketing Officer and chief creative officer for the Female Quotient, and we are just over the moon to chat with you about all the things. So, yes. Hello.

Caroline Dettman (00:10:23): Hello, hello. I'm so happy to be here.

Felicia Jadczak (00:10:26): We are happy to have you with us.

Caroline Dettman (00:10:30): You want [inaudible 00:10:30] us off?

Felicia Jadczak (00:10:30): Yeah. I was going to say it's not the first time that we worked together or chatted together, but this is certainly the first time that we've podcasted together. For those folks listening who don't know Caroline, you've had a hell of a career, so I would love to start off with just, can you share your journey from being in communications, to running your own organization, to heading up marketing and creative for the Female Quotient now? Just would love to learn how you've gotten to where you are right now.

Caroline Dettman (00:10:54): Yeah, no. Absolutely. I've been in the business world for about 30 years-ish, and I really started on the advertising and marketing communication side, running business mainly in more comms, and then really turning my focus to my craft, which is creatives, becoming creative director, and then leading creative for different agencies around the world. Growing up as a woman in that culture, still to this day, there are not enough women creative directors. So it was very, very male dominated, like a lot of industries are, of course. I think it was really, really tough though because of the influence that marketing and advertising in particular has. I always couldn't get comfortable with the notion that, at the time that I was coming up, only about three percent of creative directors were women, which essentially meant that over 90% of the advertising and the messages that are going out into the world for the biggest companies in the world that you're seeing on TV, that you're seeing on the Superbowl didn't have a female point of view, which just never sat right with me.

(00:12:10): And so, as I aged into different paths and eventually became a chief creative officer for a global agency, I was in a position of power and wanted to use my platform in different ways. One of those ways was to really try and understand why and how, even though I kind of knew, we didn't have women in creative departments. And so it was a personal journey, a bit of a side hustle, and then myself, personally, really trying to infuse more women of all ages and diversity into creative departments at our agency. I started a campaign, essentially, that was a challenge to the entire marketing world, which was called Have Her Back. It was really meant to be a challenge to big businesses and marketers, just in general, to work really hard to create actual cultures of creative departments where women could thrive and, of course, found out real quick that it was, and knew this of course, that creative departments are not the only places in the business world that are male dominated, and where it's really hard for women to thrive. So, quickly realized that this was no longer a side hustle.

(00:13:20): But this was something I was passionate to do and use my craft and my skillset in creative problem solving to do that full time, and so eventually I started my own business called Have Her Back, but it was born when I was at AIPG, and did that for about three years, where we worked with a lot of DEI departments, companies around the world. That was during the Pandemic, and it was also post George Floyd. And so we had a lot of momentum, and then that slowed down a bit about two years after George Floyd, I would say. That's a concern that still kind of haunts me to this day, that we have not seen the type of movement that we want to. Then, as life sort of happens, when I was that creative director coming up in a very male-dominated world, there were two conferences, business conferences that I would go to every year, one being Cannes: The International Festival of Creativity, and the other being Advertising Week in New York. It was just all men, very few women, and so this little lounge popped up.

(00:14:25): It was called, at the time, The Girls' Lounge. It popped up, and I just happened to see it, and I went, "Well, that's interesting. What could that be?" I went in there. This was years ago, and met Shelley Zalis, who is the founder of the Girls' Lounge, and now the Equality Lounge, and it became my home away from home. I just went, "Wow. There's finally a place for me at a business conference where I feel like I could show up as myself, where I could meet with other women, and we could support one another," and that eventually evolved into the FQ's Equality Lounge, and I started speaking at the Equality Lounges, and it just became my community essentially. And so Shelley called me last summer and was like, "We are at a place in our journey where we need a chief marketing officer, and it has to be you." I jumped at the opportunity to do it, and so I've been doing that since late last year, and so I'm just getting my sea legs, I feel like, but it's been pretty incredible.

Rachel Murray (00:15:19): Oh my God. What a journey, and also just a perfect fit. When I saw the news, and Felicia is nodding her head, we're like, "Yes, this is right," and I have a follow-up question around that, because as we all know, jumping into working for yourself can be really scary. How was that for you, making that transition sort of out and then back in? What was that like?

Caroline Dettman (00:15:45): You know, it was interesting. At first, I think I was so excited about sort of owning my own company. That was really exciting for me, and I really wanted it, because really why I love that idea was because I wanted to create the kind of culture that I never really had been able to work, at big [inaudible 00:16:02], so that was what excited me the most about it. But I will say, what I've learned through the experience is that I am a creative through and through. What I mean by that is I'm not all that interested in the business financial side of things. I want to create campaigns and actions that have never been done before. Having worked on the Dove Real Beauty campaign at its inception, that changed my life, and I think that's always kind of what I'm striving for.

(00:16:29): And so, coming in, there was so much excitement, and I loved being a founder, and I've loved kind of creating a culture from scratch, but the business side of it always, rightfully so, really took precedence. I felt almost like I wasn't my whole self, like my right arm was cut off, if that makes sense. And so I really just missed that. I think, so with then coming into as the CMO of The Female Quotient, that's what I'm doing day in and day out, is I'm working on the creative and the branding and working with the biggest companies in the world on how they can be taking actions on equality, right? And so that's my first love, and I think that really is where I thrive. I think when I'm thriving, I can only create a better culture and everything else.

Felicia Jadczak (00:17:20): Yeah. I mean, I think if anyone gets it, we do, because that's certainly a huge driver for both Rachel and I when we left our respective careers to start She Geeks Out, is the chance to create something from scratch that maybe wasn't exactly what we were getting in other places. So, definitely appreciate that, and it's a huge thing to do, and also love that you're like, "Hey, I'm a creative person." That's my jam. You mentioned the Dove Real Beauty ad campaign. So before we even go any further, I actually want to go back to that, because that is one of the most successful campaigns of all time. I want to say it was maybe almost 20 years ago that it came out. I don't want to date you at all, but I think I'm doing the math right.

Caroline Dettman (00:18:05): You got it.

Felicia Jadczak (00:18:08): If you're up for it, I would love to just learn more about your involvement in that, because that just is such an iconic campaign. I didn't know you were even involved in that at all.

Caroline Dettman (00:18:16): Yeah, so I was working at Edelman at the time, and Edelman was the agency of record for Dove, and we worked very closely with Ogilvy, who was the ad agency, and Dove was a very different brand at the time. Dove was just a soap, a bar of soap at the time, and their big claim to fame was they had a [inaudible 00:18:36] moisturizing cream, was their big point of difference. Probably to no one's surprise, it had fallen out of relevance, and so actually at the time, it was very much in danger of being sold from Unilever. In some ways, it made for a perfect opportunity for creatives, because they had nothing to lose essentially, right? And so we were able to really do something different, and I think what I find so interesting about it is that, again, it's all the stuff that everybody, still to this day, because they've done, I only touched it in the very beginning.

(00:19:12): I think what's so amazing about it is the staying power of it and how many other brands have gone in this direction since. But what is so int what I love to tell people about is how it started, because people often forget, and the brand did not have big marketing dollars because of all the reasons that I talked about. So it had an incredible insight, and Edelman had done the research on the insight that found that only two percent of women considered themselves beautiful, which was sort of this shocking and ridiculous, and yet, "Yeah. I'm one of those people, right?" And we're conditioned to that, and so that's a problem, and could we help to really solve that and take actions? But we didn't have a ton of dough. The brand did not have a lot of money.

(00:19:52): And so the campaign that I think everybody remembers, is a giant advertising campaign, were a bunch of different sized women, like real women basically standing in their underwear. But we didn't have a ton of money to place it. We actually did very minimal billboard campaign, and one of the places was in my hometown of Chicago in a pretty prominent place, in the sense that everybody goes by it on their way to work. The idea was, obviously, with a small budget, let's get as many eyeballs as we can. What we did not anticipate, however, was that there was a certain reporter in the town of Chicago who wrote a column about being offended by having to drive by it every day. Yes.

Felicia Jadczak (00:20:35): Wait, really?

Rachel Murray (00:20:36): Wow.

Felicia Jadczak (00:20:38): Okay. All right.

Caroline Dettman (00:20:39): So what I will tell you is, we didn't plan that, but it got us a lot of attention because there was a certain summit in the city of Chicago back in those days who was a huge megastar, by the name of Oprah.

Rachel Murray (00:20:53): Oh my goodness.

Caroline Dettman (00:20:54): Who saw that article and had a problem with it, and so before we knew what happened, she called and invited those models from that billboard to be on her show, and you can't get any bigger.

Felicia Jadczak (00:21:08): I was going to say, I feel like this is a case study in more ways than one, because it's literally a case study of how no press is bad press, right?

Caroline Dettman (00:21:15): Right, Exactly.

Felicia Jadczak (00:21:17): So thank you, to that awful reporter, right?

Caroline Dettman (00:21:20): It became a part of cultural zeitgeist. It became this much bigger thing than we could have ever planned for, and what people remember now is it was this giant advertising campaign, and of course it did become that, right? And it became a master brand, and they're still, the way they innovate in that campaign is so impressive, which is why everyone's still, when you talk about purpose campaigns, Dove has got to be, if not the number one mentioned, I think it's always top three. But seeing that and being a tiny little part of that changed my life, because I saw the power of creative, and the power of standing for something that maybe wasn't popular and maybe wasn't exactly what folks did before, but it was disruptive. But by tapping into real consumer emotion, you could really change behavior, and you could do something really magical and meaningful. I mean, for better or for worse, I don't think I ever looked back after that.

Rachel Murray (00:22:15): Wow. Oh my goodness, Felicia.

Felicia Jadczak (00:22:17): I know.

Rachel Murray (00:22:18): I'm so glad you double clicked on that.

Felicia Jadczak (00:22:20): Well, I am too, because I was just having flashbacks while you were sharing, because I literally went through and learned the Dove case study in business school, and that was just such a sort of full circle moment for me, so thanks for sharing more about how you were involved in that. It's so cool to hear.

Rachel Murray (00:22:38): Yeah, and I want to talk, too, about your current role, The Female Quotient. I would love to just know more about it. I know it's got the lounge, and there's the conferences, but I would just love to dive into that, your role, and what it is that you do.

Caroline Dettman (00:22:53): Yeah, no. Absolutely, so look, I think what's so incredible with The Female Quotient, I'm so grateful because I've been a part of the brand. I've been a part of the community, so I've got to experience the community and what it really is at its authentic core. It started, truthfully, as a place at the biggest conferences in the world where there weren't women or certainly not enough women. And so Shelley Zalis, our founder, she was very big in the research world. That was where she came from, and she essentially started online marketing before online marketing was a thing. So she was going to all the big advertising marketing conferences, and she was going to see, yes, and she was really uncomfortable.

(00:23:34): I mean, just women weren't very welcome, right? And they're still not to some degree, but 10 years ago, certainly even more. And so this notion that we talk about quite a lot, which is the power of the pack, women alone have power, but together we have impact, right? And so I think that that's really at the crux of the idea, so we created a space at the world's biggest industry conferences that are built by women, but they're for everyone, so we do have a lot of men. I think more importantly, we're open to all, and so I think really what I've always loved about it is there is no membership fees. You don't have to have a badge to come to The Female Quotient.

(00:24:14): So as an example, we just came from South by Southwest, and we are an official quality partner of South By, but we're the only un-badged space, which means you don't have to pay for an expensive badge to be a part of our programming, right? And so we have people who come to the equality lunches who don't ever go. They don't have a badge, because badges are expensive, right? They'll come, and they'll just be with us, and so we're really proud of that. It's not something that everyone's excited about when we're the only non-badge space, but it's really important to us because we want to make sure that we're always open to all. So I just think that's something that people, I don't necessarily think, know about us.

(00:24:54): And so as the chief marketing officer, my job is to make sure, like what I find special about it and what I find unique about it, I want to make sure that people know about that, right? And so that's really important. So we're really known, I think, for our signature equality lounges that we do at the world's biggest conferences. So that's everything from Davos, to Cannes, to South By, to Advertising Week, and we do many conferences. We also do a lot of custom conferences in the last couple of weeks alone, we were at the White House Correspondence dinner. We just did a reception for Milken. We are at HIMSS in Chicago and healthcare. So we cross every single industry because, very sadly, of course you know this all too well, no industry has this sorted yet, right?

(00:25:38): And so we're pretty much relevant everywhere, but something really interesting happened during the pandemic, which is, of course, the events industry shut down. And so this was not some grand, strategic plan, but Shelley was very, very smart and very quick to go virtual. I think this community of women really needed a place to be together. And so The Female Quotient at the time put on something like 800 virtual events, and essentially what happened was we created this global FQ community that really didn't exist prior to that, because to experience us, you really had to come to an event, and that changed everything. So now, all of a sudden, we had this very global, very growing, and very engaged community.

(00:26:25): And for all of your listeners, if you aren't, I ask you to just come on to Instagram and LinkedIn, The female quotient, join us, and join our community. Keep us posted. Really, I think we've established a really good tone that people really engage in. So we just recently crossed the one million mark in terms of community members, and I'm hella impressed with that and excited about that, but what I'm more impressed by is the engagement that we have on the FQ social channels, because we're all busy people. We're all busy women. We're all busy executives. We're all busy rising stars, and folks choose to engage with us, and we don't take that for granted. So anyway, we're super excited about that. So, that's one piece that I'm excited about, so just the core of the business.

(00:27:17): But we are very much moving into the media space and the content space, and very much more thinking about ourselves as a media company, and so course, as with my background, that gets me really excited, and we continue to be in the advisory space. We do a lot of research. Shelley's background, as I mentioned, is in research. And so we're doing some of the most compelling research studies with our partners. We just did a global report on the resilience of women with Cisco, as an example, and we're doing a lot more in that space in research. So that's one of the services that we're doing, so it's like being a kid in the candy store for me, so much that we do, and now we've got to figure out how we communicate it and we make sure that the world knows, because we're doing some incredible work, and we just want more people to become a part of it.

Felicia Jadczak (00:28:12): Well, it sounds like a lot of people do know.

Caroline Dettman (00:28:14): Oh my goodness.

Felicia Jadczak (00:28:16): At least a million.

Caroline Dettman (00:28:16): Amazing.

Felicia Jadczak (00:28:18): I was like, "We actually have a moment."

Caroline Dettman (00:28:21): You are both a part of the community, and it's amazing.

Rachel Murray (00:28:25): Yeah, wow. I feel like I just have to pause, because you threw so much out there, but aggressive applause, because really, we're like, "Teach us your ways. Have 800 virtual events." What? The team.

Caroline Dettman (00:28:44): The Female Quotient team, our social media team is incredible. Hats off to them, what they have created, what Talia, our president, has created. We just have an incredible team. I mean, like I said, I'm a kid in a candy store. I'm getting to work with some of the best people I've ever gotten to work with.

Rachel Murray (00:29:01): Wow. Well, it's amazing. I was going to add, you actually beat me to the question, which is, "What is the special sauce?" but you said it. It's the team. And look, it's not easy, as you know, because you ran your own business, right? It's not easy running a team, so kudos to you and whatever magic, McDonald's special sauce.

Felicia Jadczak (00:29:22): Sprinkled.

Rachel Murray (00:29:22): I don't know. It's absolutely amazing. Do you credit a lot of that moment, that huge growth, from the pandemic? That was really the game changer, like if that didn't happen, you were still on a trajectory anyway?

Caroline Dettman (00:29:37): I think just Shelley was ahead of her time. We're in the business of equality. There was no business of equality, right? But she saw the need to have that as a business and way before Me Too. She saw that, so I think we were just positioned so right, and I think the authenticness, that if you know Shelley and if you know Shelley at all, she's the real deal. I mean, no one works harder than her. No one has the relationships she does. She will give you the shirt off of her back, literally, and so much more. And so I think to have someone like that, she's just a force. She's literally a force. And one of her, I call them Shelley-isms, but one of the things that she says, which I fundamentally believe in is she hires for passion. She trains for skill. I think that is really important, because when I look at the team that we're building, I think that's incredible, right? That makes a culture, I think. And so I think that's been a really big, big part of it.

Rachel Murray (00:30:44): Love that.

Felicia Jadczak (00:30:45): Oof chills. I just feel like I'm still adjusting to all the info that you threw out there. Let's dig in a little bit further, because you've touched on so much already, but where you started was really addressing all these fields that are so male dominated, and obviously the gender gap and dynamics are a huge part of the work that you're doing and what you all are focused on, and it's so challenging because there's also a lot of resistance out there and resistance to change. You've actually noted that the World Economic Forum has said that it will take another 132 years to close the gender gap, so how do you see the work that you're doing as not only creating this incredible community and doing all this great stuff, but changing the game so that we can maybe see faster progress, hopefully, in in our lifetime?

Caroline Dettman (00:31:35): Isn't that maddening?

Felicia Jadczak (00:31:36): It's wild.

Caroline Dettman (00:31:37): It should be maddening, and I think why we've latched onto that, and I think correctly so, is because everyone can look at that and realize how ridiculous that is. So we believe this is not brain surgery that we're trying to do here, right? I mean, look, it takes a moonshot mindset, and it takes prioritization, those two things. When those two things happen, we created the internet in 25 years. We went to the moon in 10 years with the moonshot mindset and prioritization. We also, during the pandemic, lifesaving vaccines were created in less than a year. And Hello, ChatGPT, I'm told, was created in less than two weeks. I mean, that's scary on a whole other level.

Felicia Jadczak (00:32:20): That's a different podcast that we'll have separately.

Caroline Dettman (00:32:22): Literally, a different podcast, and we'll have ChatGPT write the whole script, right? Anyway, continue.

Felicia Jadczak (00:32:28): Right? That's right.

Caroline Dettman (00:32:30): I have a funny story about that, which we'll talk about over a cocktail, but the point is that when we prioritize and when we have that moonshot mindset, we are an innovative world, and we can do what we set out to do and what we prioritize to do. So again, we can do this. And so recently, we had an incredible op-ed in Time Magazine where we talked about this, and we call it the flipping point, and that's where we're at right now. And so we're currently looking and working with some of the top CEOs in the world about how we take that 132 years, and we do it in five. So we have a lot going on right on that, right?

Felicia Jadczak (00:33:13): So is that a date, or is that just a five-year bounding time? Is this going to be 20-

Caroline Dettman (00:33:22): What year are we in?

Felicia Jadczak (00:33:22): I know. What year is it? By 2028, we're fixed. Is that like 2028? Is that, I got to just make it till then?

Caroline Dettman (00:33:30): Yeah, no. And you are, by the way. I think for us, and I've said this for a long time, no one company has said that they are going to solve climate change, right? That's a big thing, so not one person, not one company can solve it, but what people can do, again, it goes back to the power of the pack, right? Alone, you can have some power, but it's together, we have the impact. So what companies are doing is they're taking steps in the ways that they can to protect the environment in ways that they haven't done before.

(00:34:02): People, humans are doing the same thing. And when you roll that up together, all of a sudden we can make a gigantic impact. I think a lot of people can be very paralyzed by the notion of, "Oh my gosh. The gender gap," and "It's going to take 132 years." You can get paralyzed by that, or you can take steps that make sense for your company and for yourself. Together, we can make a bigger solve, and I think that's the approach that we're taking with the flipping point and why we're so bullish that we can do that so much sooner.

Rachel Murray (00:34:30): Love that. I'm taking so many notes, and it leads me to my next questions, perfect little segue, is because there are so many ways to tackle this particular one of billions of issues, what do you think are some of the most important issues for companies, for these leaders to take in the workplace?

Caroline Dettman (00:34:51): I mean, I think we're separating them out into chunks, right? We have 10 things that we think are so critical to actually solving the gender gap. So you're not going to be surprised that caregiving is number one, and being a mom of three, that is huge, obviously, on our list to tackle. You know what is amazing? Is that there are already some really disruptive and innovative technologies that are being created every day that tackle this. In some cases, it's like where we can be a matchmaker to these big companies, we can, and other places where there isn't current technology being created, then we can go create it. There's not much in the world today that if you want to tackle with technology that you can't tackle in some way. So I think that's obviously one area.

(00:35:38): I think skills and certification is another key area that we're looking at, because right now there are so many women in particular that aren't in STEM fields, and yet that's where all the job creation is. The college education is not what it once was, and so there are skills that are needed that can be done via certifications, and so you're seeing companies doing a lot of certifications and donating a lot of certifications to women in third-world countries, women in Africa. But the missing piece is they're doing certifications, but we're not necessarily guaranteeing jobs from that, right? And so that's an area, as an example, that we're looking at. I mean, I could go on and on and on, but again, there are solves to these things.

(00:36:26): But we just have to be looking at them so that they're not so overwhelming that people can't see how they can be a part of the solution. I love that, and I have a follow-up question to that, which you may or may not choose to answer. I have lately been on my little high horse on my little soapbox after reading all about CEO pay. I mean, we've all known about CEO pay, but then there's actually a website that shows that literally a billion dollars in salary. So my question to you, because I think you're totally right on childcare, I have a friend that literally cannot, she and her husband make $300,000, and they cannot afford to get a mortgage for a house. They have one little kiddo baby, and childcare is like $7,000 a month.

(00:37:10): Now, granted, that's like San Francisco prices, but still. That is more than three mortgages in some parts of the country. So you see these CEOs making a billion dollars a year, so my question is, why aren't more CEOs literally just providing childcare at their companies? I think maybe some are, but why won't they all do it? I mean, listen, I think that's something that CEOs have to be looking at right now, right? And I think the more that we're seeing more and more CEOs taking that on and having success retaining women, which is a huge audience for them to retain, you're going to start to see that ripple effect, right? But you have to have the leaders that take that on. It's just like what Salesforce did with pay several years ago. I mean, same thing. What? We're not being paid the same?

(00:37:55): And they took that on, and that became now in the vernacular, that more and more companies are choosing that that's an area that they're going to focus on, right? And do we have it solved? No, but I think someone's got to take it on and someone's got to show that it matters. And we, as women, have to show that those are the companies we're going to go work for, and those are the companies that we're going to stay at, and those are the companies where we want to lead, right? And so I think that's what we have to see more and more of. I think there's a lot of ways that we can look at childcare differently, and I think our country in particular is really, really scarily behind on this. I also think there is a government role here that happens in other countries that doesn't happen here, that absolutely abysmal, and we have failed moms in this country.

Rachel Murray (00:38:43): We have, and you know what? And you're totally-

Caroline Dettman (00:38:45): And parents in this country.

Rachel Murray (00:38:48): Yeah, yeah. And you are absolutely right about that, and it's funny because I agree with you, and I think that there are folks in government that would love to support. Unfortunately, there are so many companies that are in bed with government that can't get that passed, so it's like it's a really tough situation. I think this country has absolutely failed parents and caregivers in general. Now, I'll get off of my soapbox, and I'll put myself on mute.

Caroline Dettman (00:39:09): Oh, it's a good soapbox. It's a really important soapbox.

Felicia Jadczak (00:39:11): It is a good soapbox, and if anyone wants to follow Rachel on LinkedIn, who doesn't already, she's posting about it on the daily.

Rachel Murray (00:39:18): I have a plan to do it. Maybe by the time this comes out, we'll be done.

Felicia Jadczak (00:39:23): I mean, it's such an interesting point that you bring up though, around the roles of government and how we're thinking about this stuff, and what's so frustrating, I think for all of us, is that literally you mentioned that it's individuals getting into this work and trying to push change. It's companies trying to push change. Companies, they're run by individuals, and I think what I get really stuck on is that if just a handful of people who had a lot of money and power decided that this was a problem that they truly wanted to address, we would solve these problems. I'm just curious, because you mentioned government just now, and in our last podcast season, we actually chatted with someone who was working on a lot of gender issues in other countries outside of the US. Does The Female Quotient specifically look at US only, or are you also thinking globally because you have a global community too?

Caroline Dettman (00:40:14): Yeah. We're in 100 countries, so we are really across. I wouldn't consider myself an expert in 100 countries. We've got other people that know more in the other countries than here, and also, because I live and work in the US and always have, I'm very obviously familiar because I am a working mother and have been my entire career in the US. And listen, there are other countries that are way more progressive, but they're less progressive in other ways, right? But the point is, no one's got this, right? No one has this right, but I look at that as an unbelievable opportunity for innovation. We can innovate with products all day long. We've got to be innovating in gender equality and equality overall. Part of that, and it goes back to, Felicia, what you said earlier, is we need more women in leadership roles, right?

Felicia Jadczak (00:41:07): Yeah. Absolutely.

Caroline Dettman (00:41:08): And so that's a big part of it, is that we need more women in leadership roles, because they'll make different decisions, because women leaders have different skillsets that oftentimes are referred to as soft and we refer to it as essential.

Felicia Jadczak (00:41:22): I love that. That's such a good reframing, because that's the thing that I get so hung up on, and Rachel's heard me rant about this before, but we are living in a patriarchal society, and we are being told that our skills are less valued because they're not the same. We don't show up the same as men might. We show emotions differently. We lead differently, so I love that reframing, and I'm totally going to steal it.

Rachel Murray (00:41:44): Yeah. Me too.

Felicia Jadczak (00:41:45): But please continue. It's going to be a pull quote.

Caroline Dettman (00:41:48): No. Please do. It's really, really important because those are essential skills: empathy, warmth, problem solving. Those are essential in business, in solving the big problems. And so yes, please do, please steal that. If I hear soft one more time, I'm going to lose my mind.

Rachel Murray (00:42:05): I love that. Oh, I love that. So I wanted to know, so for those companies that are maybe earlier on in their journeys, would there be some sort of low hanging fruit kind of advice that you would want to give to them?

Caroline Dettman (00:42:19): Yeah. I mean, listen, if you're real early on, and you're like building a company, have women on your leadership team as your co-leads, leaders, all of that. If you're building a board, make sure you've got women in diversity on that board, on your creative teams, on every team, right? And so, in some ways, if you're just starting, I don't want to say it's easy. Nothing's easy, but it's easier than trying to boil an ocean at a global company from that perspective, so I think that's really important. I also think if you're first starting out, the culture piece is everything. It's everything.

(00:42:53): And again, it's much easier to build an authentic culture when you're first starting out than after the fact that you've been around for 50 years, right? So I just think there's so much promise and opportunity, and the reality is the business case, I don't even want to talk about it, because the business case has been proven again and again, but women-owned companies, they perform better. They have better cultures. Fact, not a wish, not a nice. Fact, so the reality is that there should be more investment in women companies for the business case alone. So that gets me excited. I just think that is such a huge opportunity for smaller companies. And I'm sorry, but the secret sauce is women.

Rachel Murray (00:43:35): Yeah.

Felicia Jadczak (00:43:35): Yes.

Rachel Murray (00:43:37): And it's funny, my favorite thing is, there's a couple of things that people say like, "Oh. It's a pipeline issue. Oh. We can't find any [inaudible 00:43:44]. We don't want to have to dumb down our-" And we joke all the time, because sometimes when we're hiring sometimes, or some people will sometimes ask, "Why don't you have men on your team?"

(00:43:55): And I say, "It's a pipeline problem. We don't want to have to lower our standards to find anyone qualified," and it doesn't go over well. I don't really ever say that because that would be-

Felicia Jadczak (00:44:04): Except now we're memorializing. Now we're memorializing it.

Caroline Dettman (00:44:09): Well, I actually think you should say it. I actually think that actually should be your response, because I do think sometimes it's in the delivery, I think. But it's one of the reasons why I think we have such a large community at Female Quotient, because a lot of the times, the way we're pointing out those things is with humor and with cleverness, and people really respond to that. I think it's people don't necessarily respond to being yelled at, I know I don't. I never did. My poor parent, right? And even with my kids, it's like when we yell, they're just like, "And we're done. End scene." And I think it's true just in the workplace, in life, or what have you. So I do think, and that's what I've always loved about being creative. My whole mantra's always been, "Let's inspire people to think differently. Let's inspire people to act differently." And so there's different ways that you can pull in those levers, and I think being clever is one of them.

Rachel Murray (00:44:59): Well, thank you for calling me clever. I appreciate it. I got one more little question before we go full on.

Felicia Jadczak (00:45:03): I have another question, actually.

Rachel Murray (00:45:05): Oh, good.

Felicia Jadczak (00:45:06): Yeah. You just mentioned the pipeline and building from the ground up. It's interesting, because I recall when Rachel and I first started doing our SGO events and building our community, and a huge part of that community is connecting women and folks who identify as women with companies who want to hire them, so it's a win-win theoretically. I just remember having so many conversations with smaller companies or companies that were maybe startups or earlier in their origin, and they would be teams of all men, and they'd be really interested in working with us because of our community and what we were all about. They would say, "Oh. Well, we don't know how to hire women," or "No women want to come work for us." I think there's obviously a lot of layers to that, of course.

(00:45:50): But one thing I do want to pick out is that a lot of women, if they're thinking about coming into a space where it is male dominated, where their team is going to be all men, their manager is going to be a man, they might be the first or the only woman in a space, it actually can be very off-putting for obvious reasons, and it can be really challenging, so it actually is a challenge for those companies and those teams. I'm curious if that's stuff that you come across in either your research or the issues that are coming up where your community, and how you've addressed that sort of dynamic of not wanting to be the first person to represent all women for a given company?

Caroline Dettman (00:46:27): Oh my god. Of course. I mean, how daunting, right? I mean, a couple of things. I think we talk a lot about representation, of course, matters, but if it's only for reflection, if you really believe that representation should matter, then you've got to do representation for change, which is not one person, right? So if you're hiring one person, they're going to be the only and lonely, and that's just not going to work, so hire three, right?

Felicia Jadczak (00:46:53): I love it. You're like, "That's it. I'm done. Hire three. Hire three."

Caroline Dettman (00:46:57): Yeah. Think about it differently.

Felicia Jadczak (00:46:58): Yeah.

Caroline Dettman (00:46:59): Right? I mean, and I always used to laugh. One of my dearest and my ex-partner, one of my dearest friends in life, Pamela Culpepper, who you both know, she's a coach for boards. Oftentimes, boards will bring in, in her case, an African-American woman, and they'll get her a coach because she's the only and the lonely. She's always said this, and it's true, "I'm not the one that needs the coach. It's actually you all that need the coach," right?

Felicia Jadczak (00:47:26): Oh my God. So true.

Caroline Dettman (00:47:28): And that's another thing that I think we have to be thinking about differently. There's this delusion of inclusion, and that it falls on the woman and the only and the lonely versus actually the inclusion. If you want an infusion of inclusion, you've got to take that on. It's the others that are the majority that have to change their behavior, right? So whether it's hiring three and threes, whether it's the coaching, and the leadership training isn't for the only and the lonely. It's for everybody else. I think that's how we have to start to attack this very differently, and this is what I'm seeing more women leaders thinking about, right? Because they've been the only and the lonely. They know what that's like, so they're going to attack it differently, so that's what I would tell those men who say, "People don't want to work for us or for me."

(00:48:15): You need to be looking at those things, and you have to be looking at your culture. I think the other big thing is, let's go back to childcare. It's interesting. One of the most things I'm most proud of that I've done within the last two years is work very closely with LinkedIn on their career break program and product, because women often are ones who need to take career breaks when they have kids because of what we talked about earlier, which is childcare issues and all of those things. Those same companies who won't even consider someone with a career break on their resume, that's a problem, because who does that impact? It impacts women.

Rachel Murray (00:48:54): Yeah, absolutely. And so when we worked with LinkedIn, who was really game for this, and you'll note that it's on my resume, on LinkedIn, you now can put on your LinkedIn profile, not only that you had a career break, but why you took it, and most importantly, the skills that you learned doing it that will make you the best employee ever. I always said this, and I believe it to this day, there is no more efficient human being than a mother.

Caroline Dettman (00:49:18): Truth. Yes. Truth.

Rachel Murray (00:49:21): And it's funny, we just published one of our other episodes with a woman who, she has on her LinkedIn resume the pregnancy pause, because it's exactly that, so well said.

Caroline Dettman (00:49:33): Name it and claim it, and it's a good thing. What we did get LinkedIn, which was really powerful, is they did research with recruiters. This is really important, with recruiters who said that, "No. Career breaks are not a career breaker. They don't want to find out about them by accident. Talk about them." I mean, and again, it's not necessarily even just a career break for being a mom. It could be whether it's a layoff and what you did during that time, volunteering, traveling, whatever it is. Talk about that, because that's all, again, that all is how you bring your whole self to work and be a better employee. So I think also being able to claim and show through research that recruiters aren't seeing this as a career breaker anymore, right? So that's helpful in terms of getting more women to own their career breaks and talk about those differently, and I think that's a change of behavior that that's really actually super helpful.

Felicia Jadczak (00:50:27): I love that, especially given that there's so many people right now who are on a career break, sometimes very involuntarily because of COVID, which has been a huge disruptor. So that's so important, and I had no idea that you were involved in that at all, so thank you for sharing that. I guess we are at our last official question. So looking ahead, what's the big vision for you? You've dropped a lot of stuff, but what's your vision?

Caroline Dettman (00:50:53): Well, I mean, the big vision is we're closing the gender gap in five years. I mean, that's a big vision. It's an audacious one.

Felicia Jadczak (00:50:58): I mean, that's-

Caroline Dettman (00:51:01): Yeah, and it's going to keep us very, very busy. And again, five years is still, in my mind, long term because the way my brain works is like, "What can I do in the next three months? What can I do this year still?" Right? So I think we've got a lot of things planned. We're all about changing the equation. That's what we are all about. It's a wonderful brief to live by. How can we change the equation? What are the problems that we can take on, and how can we change that equation? So I don't know exactly when this is airing, but we've got some really big things actually coming that I think people are going to get really excited about in terms of how we're changing the equation going forward, so stay tuned. There's lots to come on that.

(00:51:38): In the real near term, I think at Cannes, it's going to be really, really big for us this year in terms of what we're doing, what we're pointing out, the different types of things we're tackling. So I think there'll be a lot to come from that. We've got a lot in the hopper, so I don't know exactly when this is coming out, but you'll see a lot of things from a short term and then long term, of course, that it's all working towards the same thing, which is we're going to change the equation to close the gender gap.

Rachel Murray (00:52:08): Well, we promise it'll come out in less than five years. Kidding. It's coming out next month. It's coming out in June. So we have some rapid fire questions. I know we're really short on time, so we will probably only going to get to one or two. But the first one I love to ask. Now, it's very important, this is not about your work. What is it that you geek out about that is not about gender equity?

Caroline Dettman (00:52:36): Oh my gosh. So much.

Rachel Murray (00:52:38): I knew it.

Caroline Dettman (00:52:40): So first of all, I geek out over, I have three boys who are no longer boys. I geek out about my one son who's in college, and then I've got identical twin boys who are juniors, so I geek out whenever they think I'm cool enough to hang out with, which is almost never, but whatever they want to do, I love to do so, and I do love television. I love entertainment. Right now, I'm watching Yellow Jackets with my two sons, and I'm completely geeking out on Yellow Jackets for all the reasons, so that's one that I'm geeking out about. My older son and I, even though he's at college, we also geek out about certain things. So we're succession. We geek out over succession together, so entertainment's a big thread in the family, and so I geek out about all that stuff. I love reading. I geeked out over the book, The Push. Oh my gosh.

Rachel Murray (00:53:32): What is that about?

Caroline Dettman (00:53:34): Oh. It's so good. And I'm telling you right now, I know it's going to be the next limited-

Felicia Jadczak (00:53:39): I'm about to add that to my good reads.

Caroline Dettman (00:53:41): So The Push is amazing. It's a little dark. It's essentially about a woman who suspects that her own child could be a bad person, and it's just-

Felicia Jadczak (00:53:51): All right.

Caroline Dettman (00:53:52): ... So fascinating, and delves into motherhood in ways that I haven't really seen before, but it's very, very good. I geek out about my dog. My dog is my everything. I know, it's crazy. But I was just in LA. I couldn't wait to get home to see Billy, my Alaskan Malamute.

Felicia Jadczak (00:54:11): I love how you started off by saying you geek out about your kids, and you're like, "But I really couldn't wait to see my dog."

Caroline Dettman (00:54:17): Well, you know what? My dog really couldn't wait to see me. Let's be honest. The kids are like, "I'm sorry. Were you gone?"

Felicia Jadczak (00:54:25): Facts.

Caroline Dettman (00:54:25): Like, God.

Felicia Jadczak (00:54:26): Okay. Well, now you obviously have to tell us everything about your dog. What is the name? What kind of dog is it? How old?

Caroline Dettman (00:54:32): Oh. My dog is an Alaskan Malamute. I've always had big dogs.

Felicia Jadczak (00:54:35): Oh, okay. Sorry.

Caroline Dettman (00:54:35): Super side note, I might be adopting one this summer. It's a little up in the air. I will have to talk to you offline about all this. Wait. A malamute or a dog?

Felicia Jadczak (00:54:44): Yes, an Alaska Malamute. Yes.

Caroline Dettman (00:54:47): Okay. Well, my malamute, they're lovers. Now, I went into this. I heard they could be a little difficult.

Felicia Jadczak (00:54:53): I am worried about the hair, so if you anything to share.

Caroline Dettman (00:54:58): [inaudible 00:54:59].

Felicia Jadczak (00:54:59): Yes. That's what I'm worried about most. Yeah.

Caroline Dettman (00:55:02): And that's legitimate. I've always had big dogs, and I've never had one of the doodles, so I've never not had hair. And luckily, I'm not allergic. One of my sons is. We can have a whole separate sidebar about that.

Felicia Jadczak (00:55:15): But you still have the dog, so I love how this is all playing out here.

Caroline Dettman (00:55:20): But I was in our office in LA yesterday, and one of my coworkers just got a sheep-a-doodle and brought this 3-month-old, 30-pound sheep-a-doodle that looks like Snoopy to the office, and I was beside myself.

Rachel Murray (00:55:34): I saw the picture on LinkedIn. I was like, I'm literally, "This is the best picture on LinkedIn that I've seen in probably a month."

Caroline Dettman (00:55:39): It was amazing. Same day. Amazing. Same day, our president, Talia, brought in her barely three month old baby, and I just didn't have a picture to share. So it was such a cool day at the office yesterday, so that was very, very fun. I think it's so important. I geek out, and my me time is really important, so I work out every morning.

Rachel Murray (00:56:02): Nice.

Caroline Dettman (00:56:02): If I don't, I don't like how the day goes, and so that's a priority.

Rachel Murray (00:56:06): Same. Thank you for sharing. We also geek out about many shows as well. I had trouble with Succession, but then when I found out the big spoiler of this season, I was like, "Maybe I should give it another chance, because now maybe I can handle it," because I couldn't handle the kids. It was the same thing every season, is the kid trying to take it over the dad, and then the dad is like, "Nah," and they outsmart him every single time.

Caroline Dettman (00:56:28): No. I totally agree. And by the way, I probably would've stopped watching it, but remember what I said in the beginning? It's something my son and I-

Rachel Murray (00:56:35): Oh, yes.

Caroline Dettman (00:56:36): Right? It's like, by the way, when he was hugely into Marvel, that's what I watched. It wasn't necessarily my favorite. You know what I mean?

Felicia Jadczak (00:56:44): You're such a good mom.

Rachel Murray (00:56:46): You're a great mom.

Caroline Dettman (00:56:46): It was something that we did together, so I think that was the pull. Yellowjackets, however?

Rachel Murray (00:56:52): Yes.

Felicia Jadczak (00:56:52): I've heard such good things. It's definitely on my list.

Rachel Murray (00:56:56): Same.

Caroline Dettman (00:56:57): Obsessed. Obsessed.

Rachel Murray (00:56:58): Right. Good. I'm in. On the list.

Felicia Jadczak (00:57:01): Well, the beautiful thing is that you answered so many of our other rapid fire questions, so you really rapid fire the rapid fire out of this.

Rachel Murray (00:57:08): You did.

Caroline Dettman (00:57:08): I feel like I'm so long-winded that rapid fire doesn't work with me, so my apologies [inaudible 00:57:14].

Felicia Jadczak (00:57:14): You did amazing.

Caroline Dettman (00:57:16): Perfect.

Felicia Jadczak (00:57:16): But I think that brings us to the end of our time together. Wild, although we'll chat more offline, of course, but thank you so, so much for geeking out with us. Where can people find you if they want to learn more, connect, learn more about all this cool stuff that's coming out? Where's the best place for people to find?

Caroline Dettman (00:57:32): Yeah. I mean, look, definitely, like I said, go to The Female Quotient on Instagram and on LinkedIn, and then me as well, and I'm not hard to find. Caroline Dettman on both of those. I think that's probably where I'm talking the most. I mean, that's what I would say, and please, keep me and keep us posted.

Rachel Murray (00:57:50): Yay. Thank you so much, Caroline. Bye.

Caroline Dettman (00:57:53): Thank you. So good to see you, both.

Rachel Murray (00:57:59): Another interview in the bag.

Felicia Jadczak (00:58:01): Yeah. We had so much fun.

Rachel Murray (00:58:03): [inaudible 00:58:03] did too, listening.

Felicia Jadczak (00:58:04): Same.

Rachel Murray (00:58:05): And we have a few announcements as always to make.

Felicia Jadczak (00:58:09): Yes. So first, it is still our 10-year anniversary coming up, so if you're a regular listener, you're like, "I get it." You can fast-forward again, but it's happening. It's going to be on the 20th. There may still be tickets available. Again, we're recording this in a time machine, so I'm actually not sure, but if there are, go ahead and grab one. It's going to be really fun. Rachel and I have been comparing notes on our outfits.

Rachel Murray (00:58:30): Yes.

Felicia Jadczak (00:58:30): How much sparkle we're going to be involved in.

Rachel Murray (00:58:32): It's a situation.

Felicia Jadczak (00:58:33): It's great. It's going to be amazing. I'm actually, I feel like I need to do homework and study up on all the amazing things that have happened over the years, the highs and the lows, so I've got all the stories ready to go, but it's going to be super fun. So don't miss that if you're in the Boston area. We've also got some other stuff coming up. So I have a webinar coming up on the 28th of June. It's on combating anti-Asian sentiments. If you are interested in learning more, if you're interested in how to be an ally for Asian folks at your organization, or if you just want to hear me talk more, which we can't get enough of me on the podcast, sign up for that. It is a free, one-hour webinar. I hope to see you there. Then, we got some other stuff. What else is happening on [inaudible 00:59:17]?

Rachel Murray (00:59:16): I'll take over for the other things. So on July 12th, communicating your values and qualifications through a job search. It's a workshop with the lovely Jen Walker Wall. We've got a big announcement. Our next geek out in person in Boston is going to be July 18th at CarGurus, so grab your ticket there. It's going to be fun. We've got great speakers, speaking for 10 minutes on whatever they geek out about. There's going to be fun raffle prizes, there's going to be bevies. There's going to be food. It's going to be a ball, and then finally we launched a job board on our website, which we've only been planning since 2016.

(00:59:54): So I'm glad, it turns out, just so you know what happened, is Felicia was like, "Rachel, why don't we have a job board on this site?"

(01:00:01): I said, "Felicia, that's a great idea, but everybody else is doing it. I don't think we need to do it. We're fine. It's in the newsletter."

(01:00:09): Felicia lovingly said, "Cool, I hear you. That's great," and then we didn't do it.

(01:00:15): Then, we hired a lovely public programs manager, Akyanna, seven years later, and she said, "Rachel, why don't we have a job board?"

(01:00:22): And I said, "Yes."

Felicia Jadczak (01:00:25): So basically it only took literally a whole other person and seven years to come around.

Rachel Murray (01:00:30): Correct. That's it.

Felicia Jadczak (01:00:31): But thank you for saying that it was part of my original idea. I appreciate that.

Rachel Murray (01:00:35): 100 percent. Absolutely. No.

Felicia Jadczak (01:00:38): I love a good, "Told you so."

Rachel Murray (01:00:40): Well, we'll see how it goes.

Felicia Jadczak (01:00:42): I know maybe you'll be the one telling me so.

Rachel Murray (01:00:45): But yeah, if you're interested, it's going to be a great resource, and if you're looking for a job, you can also post your job onto the website as well. If you have any questions, you can always reach out to us. We're at shegeeksout.com. You can get all the information there, sign up for our newsletter. It's fantastic. We work really hard on it. We send it out monthly. A lot of TLC goes into it, so that's that.

Felicia Jadczak (01:01:09): All the things. So yeah, thanks so much. If you are still here with us, a huge thank you. Thank you for listening. Thank you for being on this journey with us with our podcasting careers. Please, please, please don't forget to rate, share, and subscribe. It does make a huge difference in the reach of this podcast and, by extension, our work. Please make sure to also tune in for our next episode in two weeks.

Rachel Murray (01:01:31): Yay, and if you're looking to further your own knowledge and gain support alongside other incredible people, please join our free community. You will get a welcoming built-in support system grounded in the values of diversity, equity, and inclusion. You'll have access to bonus episodes, additional resources, courses, webinars, coaching, and so much more. So check it out at risetogether.shegeeksout.com. Thanks, everybody. Bye.