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What Do Working Moms Need? Rise Together Live with Reem Papageorgiou from MomUp

This is a recording taken from our May 19, 2022, Rise Together Professional Development LinkedIn Live. Rachel Murray and Vienna DeGiacomo sat down with Reem Papageorgiou from MomUp to talk about what working moms are wanting from employers in 2022, and what comes next for their careers. Follow us on LinkedIn and subscribe to our newsletter to find out more about upcoming LinkedIn Lives and other events.

Rachel M:
I’m so excited. Hi everybody. I’m Rachel Murray, pronouns she/her. Co-Founder, Co-CEO of She+ Geeks Out. So happy for, for all of you to be here and to be watching slash listening in the background. However, y’all rolling for this LinkedIn live today. I am so excited to be here with the incredible Reem Papageorgiou. I really hope that I got that right. This is like the third time I’ve said your last name. Reem has been a wonderful partner of SGOs for a while now. And co-founder of MomUp. And I would just love to start off by having you tell a little bit about your story, who you are, what MomUp is, and then we’ll get into it.

Reem:
Yeah, absolutely. So excited to be talking to you again, Rachel, and to be back. And awesome job, you got the last name. Well done. Lots of letters there. So yes, I’m Reem Papageorgiou, co-founder of MomUp. I have an interesting personal journey in that I’ve worked in a lot of different careers. So just want to give a shout out that you can always keep reinventing yourself. MomUp was launched in 2019, really with a mission to advance women in the workplace. And we, you know, we have three arms to what we’re doing. The first arm is our candidates. We work with some rockstar women who really are looking to advance in their careers. And for some, that means returning to work after a break and for others, you know, they’re looking to step into leadership and we really want to see more women, not just at the table, but leading the discussions at the table to make change.

Reem:
The other arm is the fantastic companies we work with. They reach out to us at MomUp often because they’re looking to address issues of gender diversity, gender equity. They’re interested in our talent pool. We have this untapped talent pool of women given our mission and what we’re trying to do. And then they’re looking for creative hiring. It’s just such a crazy time in hiring, which I know we’ll talk about later on in this. And then the third arm is the one I’m super passionate about. It’s the advocacy work we do. We partner with a lot of local organizations and state organizations to address issues of childcare paid leave, family leave, and the wage gap. So that’s amazing.

Rachel M:
Reem, there’s so much to dig into. And I’m a jerk. I forgot to also share this space with my lovely co-pilot Vienna DeGiacomo, who also has an amazing last name, PS. Reem, Thank you so much. Vienna. Do you want to say hi?

Vienna:
Sure. I’ll say hello. Hi. Thanks so much for pulling me in today. It’s always nice to chat with you, Rachel and Reem as well. Yeah, I am Vienna DeGiacomo, I use she/her pronouns. I’m the content marketing manager at SGO. So I’ve gotten to work with Reem a little bit as we’ve done more conversations here and there, and I get to work with Rachel every day. So yeah, I am a working mom of three beautiful kiddos. So this is a conversation that’s really near and dear to my heart too.

Rachel M:
Thank you so much Vienna. And I will share that I am part of the child-free club. I’m in my forties and child free. So this is me. And so I’m really glad to have Vienna here as well, to be a part of this conversation that you can provide a lens to this conversation as well. And there’s so much to dig into here, but I want to start out and I really want to get into the advocacy piece as well. Cause I’m curious about that, but I would love to just get a little bit of a lay of the land. What does it look like right now? So much has happened since the last time we had an opportunity to chat. What does it look like for working moms now in 2022?


Reem:
It’s still challenging.  I wish I could say, you know, I think the last time we talked, I was talking about let’s hope it’s the roaring twenties of hiring coming after the pandemic. It is roaring out there, but it’s tricky for women and caregivers, and all parents. Actually I think the biggest issues hitting home still are issues of flexibility as well as childcare. So we can go either way with that. Where do you want to start?

Rachel M:
Wherever you feel most comfortable.

Reem:
Okay. So I think in terms of flexibility, there’s still this stigma that a working mom isn’t gonna be as focused at work, or what does flexibility really mean? And is she gonna scoot out? And I think we’ve got to continue to address that bias because as we’ve talked, actually the three of us before, the data’s there to prove it, that moms really are the best employees and also coming out as the best managers, because there is so much empathy needed in the workspace right now, given issues of burnout and whatnot. So I think we’ve gotta revamp this flexibility piece and make sure that it’s not just working moms that are at home. Flexibility doesn’t necessarily mean working from home. It means having some autonomy to your work day, the trust to be efficient and productive and coming up with plans that support working parents. And if companies address flexibility, they’re gonna retain their talent. We could spend hours talking about hiring and how much time it takes. I’m sure you all know that. But really addressing flexibility encompasses everything.

Rachel M:
Totally agree. Totally agree. And Vienna, feel free to chime in here. Or also I’m gonna jump to another thingy.

Vienna:
Yeah. I mean, I was just going to say, did we want to talk about the childcare challenges? Because that is so real. I mean, it has been a wild ride. I have two kids in daycare. One of my kids is school age. And I feel lucky for every day I’m able to actually have them in daycare because it’s wild.

Reem:
There is so much there. And as I was preparing for us to talk today, I feel like childcare is the root of the wage gap, of everything. Women’s advancement. As I was kind of looking at everything, I had this arrow on my notes. It was like childcare, childcare, childcare. I think there’s a couple issues, and Vienna, you’re highlighting it. I think that obviously there’s a lack of, because so many childcare facilities shut down during the pandemic, but also with COVID restrictions, with work restrictions. It’s also that which is available, isn’t that available. And then there’s a financial piece to it. And I think, you know, we’ve talked about how depressing it is seeing what’s happened to women in the workplace. But we’ve also talked about how this is the moment.

Reem:
This is the time where we need to pivot and really shine that light on the changes that need to be made because it was never a successful environment. And so I really want to see, you know, people come together to really address issues of, you know, whether it’s backup care or financial support within companies. Again, there’s that flexibility piece. I think it was the national women’s law center that did a study that said if we really can provide appropriate childcare for all women, not only does it, you know, return them to the workforce and increase their lifetime earnings, but it actually reduces the wage gap among race, between white women and black and Latina women. And so there’s so many levels to it and it’s an issue that affects everyone. And I think people keep looking at it as the mom’s problem for the woman’s problem. And so it’s just, I just make arrows to everything. So I’m rambling. I would love to hear your thoughts.

Rachel M:
Yeah. Well, if I could just interject because I’m, I actually just learned it’s so funny, you know, when you think about like, oh yeah, childcare it’s, you know, it’s expensive. How will we ever do this? And a like on a really on a national scale. Well, I just learned that that actually happened in the forties when women were sent to work, when all the guys were fighting and women took over the workplace. There was government subsidized child care. I don’t know why we can’t do that anymore. Seems like that would be a great thing to be able to offer folks. But because that has been really a huge challenge. I mean, I see it just, just in our little tiny team, let alone what I see out in the internet. So yeah, it’s incredible.

Vienna:
Yeah. I think something that we all as a society forget too is, and not to sound too capitalist in this, but those little kids today that need childcare are also in the workforce 20 years from now. So we all truly benefit from them having a better, safer foundation of their education, of getting to play more, of having somewhere safe to go and have good food and access to these things. No one is benefiting if these children are not put on the right track from early on. And I think that’s something that we forget about a lot.

Reem:
It’s such a good point. You know, on the other side of that, I’ve been learning more about the amount we contribute to poverty by not providing childcare. So that, to your point, Vienna, trickles down to the children, right. But also not having women as a part of the workforce, they’re therefore not injecting millions of dollars into the economy. Companies don’t have diverse teams, which can make companies better all around. I mean, it’s just these levels that keep going and why can’t we just come together and really give a hard look at providing, you know, universal childcare, paid family leave and sick leave. So there’s not all of this, I don’t know, trickle down effect.

Rachel M:
Well, this is depressing. Well, it just seems like there’s an opportunity. You know, we are one of the wealthiest countries in the world and the fact that we can’t do things that actually benefit everyone is kind of wild. But happy to move on to another really happy topic. Vienna wrote an incredible blog piece. Was it last week? I believe it was two weeks ago.

Vienna:
I think two weeks.

Reem:
Mother’s day. Right.

Rachel M:
That’s right. That’s right. What is time? We don’t know. But yeah, maybe Vienna, do you want to share a little bit about the blog post that you wrote?

Vienna:
Sure. It definitely came up from seeing all those articles about what mom really wants for Mother’s Day. And we don’t want another robe. We don’t want a mess left in the kitchen for breakfast in bed. We want better benefits. We want protections from the government. We want a lot of stuff that we need, folks who are child-free, who aren’t having kids yet, who are fathers. We need everyone to go to bat for us to help get these things. So I took my frustration about seeing all these headlines to the sacred space that is the online Facebook moms group. Like the working moms group on Facebook has been my place to go with all my parenting questions since the time I had my first son. And I just really posed the question to them, like, what is it that you want from your employer?

Vienna:
What do you want? How does this tie into your mental health? And it’s heartbreaking, but everyone there pretty much had a story. Like we were really picking and choosing what to even include because that could have been, you know, hundreds of stories. Everyone just had a story about their experience as a working parent and what they needed, what they didn’t have. There were a couple of great tidbits in there about supportive workplaces and employers that were able to provide more flexibility or more mental health modeling. So yeah, I think there’s a lot in there that people are looking for from work.

Reem:
I think that it’s really a great space to talk about burnout and what is going on and how it can be addressed. And I mean I shared with you that I had marked it and finally had a chance to sit down and read it yesterday and, you know, started with a laugh because it’s true. It’s like not another robe or candle. In fact, I also don’t want breakfast in bed and I might like the day to myself, PS but I love my kids. But I think that, you know, how companies approach this, you know, many can say they have, oh, we have an EAP- employee assistance program. The reason I just said that full word out is because a lot of, you know, people don’t know they have that, or even what it is. But I don’t think that that’s enough.

Reem:
I think Vienna, I love what you say, there’s a charge for everyone to come together, you know, to address issues of burnout. It starts in the home, like, what is that balance like in the, in the home? What is it like for, you know, a family you know, for a partner to take paid leave. And as a unit, you know, I’ve seen people argue that as a unit, take paid leave together. So you can start from the very beginning dividing and conquering. And you know, some of the quotes you shared in your article, you know, people don’t realize how stressful it is thinking if you took the chicken out of the freezer for dinner, while you’re getting ready for your zoom presentation, and you have your toddler, you know, sick at home and, you know, no other food in the house, like there’s those levels of burnout that are so beyond, plus a pandemic, right? So, I mean, I think companies need to really lead from the top is what we’re finding. They need their leaders to really be open about mental health. You know, there’s obviously benefits like, you know, apps and things like this that, you know, mindfulness that companies can provide, but what are they coming together as a company to reduce the stigma around needing support for the burnout?

Rachel M:
Yeah. Thank you. I agree with, of course, with everything you just shared and it’s such a widespread problem, and I think you even see it with executives having. They’re burnt out and their mental health issues are showing up in all sorts of wild ways, right? Like we’re seeing how they’re responding too. It’s like, if we could all just sort of take a minute. The burnout is real and the great resignation is real. And that sort of leads me to sort of the next piece of it, cuz I’ve, I’ve been reading and hearing stories lately about how there’s been sort of the great regret also. So a lot of folks have been leaving, but then, oh my goodness, they realize wherever they’re going, it’s still not so great. It’s not solving the problem or it’s, or they still need to, you know, they, they need to make money to live. Right. How wild is that? So we would just love to get your thoughts on sort of what that recruiting and hiring landscape looks like today.

Reem:
It’s such an interesting space. First I want to say hooray, it’s a candidate’s market for anybody listening. It’s your time to advocate for yourself and really land where you want. It is true that there are a lot of opportunities, opportunities out there and not enough candidates. One caveat though, is there are plenty of people looking for work that can’t find a role. So it’s like, well, wait, what’s going on out there. And what I find from what I sit is a couple of things. Some of the roles are super specific. Some of the companies think they’re ready to boogie, but they get to that finish line and they relook at, you know, their financial structure and wait. So there’s a lot of uncertainty still, I think, as the repercussions, you know, two and a half years in, I mean, I can’t wait till I stop saying things like that.

Reem:
Right. I hope I’m not saying seven years in. But I think, you know, on the company side, you know, we find that companies are attracting more candidates, more qualified candidates, if they’re willing to provide, you know, flexibility, hybrid work environments, but also support. And to your point, Rachel, yes, executives can be burnt out and then it’s like, well, wait, now I have to understand mental health. Yes, you do. Because you want to keep your team and you want to have a successful company, but you don’t have to do it alone. I want to see companies training their managers on things like this so that they are not burnt out and trying to find their way because not everyone’s a natural, you know, therapist, if you will, or aware of empathy practices. So I think for companies, they really need to be creative. I’m surprised by the companies that are still demanding, you know, in-house work. But I think on the candidate side, I really want to advocate to ask for what you need going in if it’s your time.

Vienna:
Yeah. I guess I have another question. Some of what came out of all those comments from the working moms that I featured in there. A lot of mentions that I saw were around it being recommended that they step back in their career or take a demotion willingly when becoming parents. Is that something that maybe is being corrected now? Is this still a trend? Like, does this happen? Have you seen a lot? I mean, obviously it happens to some folks, but is this something that’s growing?

Reem:
I want to make sure I understand, the question is, are companies continuing to recommend that people step down or is that, is that ending? Is that right?

Vienna:
Yeah. I’m wondering if, sort of like the, the career shake up of the past few years, if that’s sort of slowing that a little bit or, or where that comes in.

Reem:
I mean, I don’t like to hear that they’re asking that. So I’m, I’m pausing a little bit to think of my response to Vienna. I, you know, to be fair, maybe they think they’re being supportive. But I think it’s up to each individual to decide where they want to go and what they want to do. I was working at MomUp with a senior executive and she was trying to make a decision, should she go forward for her next role? Or did she want to be home at dinner? And it, you know, and we talked through it and how they both are important. And we talked about being the senior executive that goes home for dinner. Like let’s figure out, let’s get you in that leadership space to make that change. And I think that as individuals, men included have to think about what they want, what their values are, and what it goes back to should the company be defining that value. I’m disappointed to hear that. I’m hoping that was your reaction too. I don’t think I’m an outlier.

Vienna:
No, it’s definitely heartbreaking to hear it. And I love what you said about getting, being the executive, that goes home for dinner, because while that is so valuable for her and her family, it’s also valuable for anyone who gets to see her modeling that that executives can also go home for dinner, and that the expectation is not that success at that company, or at that organization, or in that industry means working around the clock. So, yeah, I love that example.

Reem:
You know, there’s this trust issue. I think I shared it last time, I can’t remember, and it’s silly, but I’ll never forget in my career life cycle when I didn’t have to ask to go to my doctor’s appointment.I think, did we talk about that? And I was like, oh my God, I’ve arrived. There’s trust here. And you know what? I was more determined to get my work done and prove myself and do my work. And I love my company and all that comes with it. And so, you know, I don’t think the company should be deciding if someone should move forward or not. There’s also this broken rung on the ladder. I’m bad with my sayings, but I think the stats are for every hundred men promoted to manager, 85 women are promoted and that’s for white women. You know, we can’t be asking women to step back when we’re well, especially at MomUp, we’re trying to move them forward.

Rachel M:
Yeah. And there was a recent article talking about executives actually saying that employees need to go into the office, but they’re not showing up. So, it just goes to show there’s a lot of hypocrisy that’s happening. And, I mean, if anything, the past few years have shown, you can get plenty of work done without being in the office for sure. And maybe even working less hours, you know, we talk a lot about that at SGO. It’s about getting the work done, not about butts in seats. And I think changing that mindset, you would think after a few years that that would’ve happened, but I think that there’s still that shift and what’s cool is that we’re seeing younger generations understanding that and whether you have kids or not, frankly, that should be the standard. Right. I love that. Yeah. And the same, hopefully companies will all get that. I wanted to talk a little bit about the advocacy piece that you’re working on because that’s new. I want to hear more about it. What are you doing? What can we do to also support

Reem:
We’re gonna change the world guys. Come on. No, we’ve just started to get really involved right now, more at the local level here in for your, your listeners or watchers. We are in Massachusetts as well. You know, we work with the Boston Women’s Workforce Council. We work with the mayor’s office, really trying to get involved, get out there. Anything we can to advance the agenda, I myself am on the YW Advocacy Committee, which has certain points they’re addressing in terms of advocacy in this space. So really just trying to get out there and address these issues more and more, I hope to continue to grow and do it on a national level, especially with what’s going on in our nation right now and addressing issues such as reproductive rights, and other issues as well.

Rachel M:
Yeah. And it’s it just for a fun fact, California apparently has a surplus of something like 90 billion this year. So like, this would be a great opportunity for folks to maybe spend a little money on our future. So yes. You know, you can bring some of your advocacy over to California.

Reem:
We’ll see what we can do. Go back to some of my roots out there in California. Perfect.

Rachel M:
Vienna, did you want to chime in, did you have something?

Vienna:
I love that. I mean, I love thinking about what we can do and how we can actually get involved and help and how the community can get on board with it. And I was just wondering, what are some of the big threats to the advancement of women, caregivers, in the workforce in general? Like where should we be focusing on that work?

Reem:
Oh, the list is long. But I’m gonna go back to childcare. I’m really gonna go back to that and paid family leave. And I think even within that, making sure we’re not just working with, you know, white collar employees, like I want to see it through all stages of employment. We have to make sure we are working, you know, even, I mean, the service industry was so hit and we’re still feeling the repercussions of that, but, you know, what are the child care issues there, you know, with these kind of random schedules that aren’t consistent you know, and inability to get to work and things like that. So I think starting, starting at all levels and really I would really continue to push for, you know, whether it’s backup care, onsite care stipends, you know, and then also get these, these organizations and programs and schools back up and running.

Reem:
There are, you know, kind of circling back to the advocacy piece- there’s so many amazing organizations doing so much work. Like there has to be a solution, and it’s hard for me as it is for, for both of you to realize we are in this country that does not support this, so unlike many other countries in the world. So I think, you know, we had talked earlier, I think even about the formula and my personal, not on this LinkedIn, but, but personally, and on my fee, my personal feed is filled with moms trying to help other moms. I have this, can I have this jar, please go to the person most in need and, and it’s heart wrenching, but also I’m like, moms are doing it again. Moms are, you know, and of course, you know, women are wonderful. I’m not just biased toward moms, but here they are coming together super efficiently getting it done. And so I don’t want to see them held back in the workforce because I can only imagine how the world would be run.

Rachel M:
So much better. Okay. That’s my bias. I’m optimistic that we would, right. I mean, It just makes sense. I’ve had this terrible joke for literally many years that I don’t understand why companies don’t hire more women. We work twice as hard for half the pay. So I literally don’t get it. 

Reem:
I know, I know.

Rachel M:
Yeah. I know this is, yeah. This is a tough topic. There’s a lot of opportunity. I call them pro opportunities. So there’s a lot of opportunity. There’s a lot of problems to be addressed. And I’m just so thankful Reem that you’re out there doing this, this work and that you’ve added this third arm. Vienna, did you have any other questions that you wanted to ask green before we sort of talk about whatever is next or your, your prognostications?

Vienna:
I’m gonna throw one other question to you. So I have always known that I wanted to have kids. It was always something on my list that I was hoping to do. And even from my first career, it was something that I was thinking- or like my first job in my career after college- it was something that I was thinking about, you know, how do I know that I’m ending up at a place that is friendly to families, friendly to parents? Are there any questions that someone could ask in an interview that would sort of give a little bit of insight to it? I know questions like, “what are your family leave policies?” Can feel really scary to ask at an interview because it feels like it might put a target on you a little bit. Are there any sort of interviewing tips that you would have?

Reem:
Yeah, absolutely. And I have a love/hate about that word target. Like, I love that you said target, I hate that the target exists. And that goes back to that bias, like, oh, great. Is she gonna come back? How many is she gonna have? And Rachel, to your point, one of the first blog posts I ever wrote from MomUp was why are we not hiring moms to the very point that they get it done and they are efficient and they, you know, why are we making these assumptions about them? So I want to encourage everyone listening that it is your market right now, and you don’t want to be somewhere that doesn’t support. So you have more questions than just their leave policy. And if you don’t want to go to the leave policy piece, because it feels a little dicey, unfortunately, you can ask things like, you know, how, how do your, you know, employees with families approach, you know, whatever holidays or time off work, or, you know, can you gimme some examples about how you support employees who have families just put it back on them.

Reem:
And they’ll probably have a little moment, but you actually, I just want to remind you, those are the things you want to know. You don’t want to have that piece missing and crossing your fingers when you take a job. And as much as you need a job, you don’t need a job. That’s not gonna support you cause you’re gonna be right back where you started. So, you know, I, off the top of my head, I can’t can’t really think of them that clearly, but really thinking of examples, going from examples from your previous job, something that happened that didn’t feel supportive. And for people without children, some of the questions are still just as important. You have other caregiving responsibilities in life, you have other needs. So think of the things that have really gotten in the way in your career and ask about them and just try to not be afraid because you’re interviewing them.

Rachel M:
Reem. That was such a great point- yeah, ask the question. If the interviewer gets squirrely or weird about it, like that’s a flag. You know, and obviously we’re in positions of privilege to be able to potentially walk away from a job opportunity if one presents itself that said, I’m so glad that you’re highlighting the fact that like it is a candidate’s market, there are opportunities out there. So thank you for that. Thank you for that. Great question, Vienna.

Vienna:
Yeah, of course. I also want to say that that’s another reason that companies should be putting caregivers and moms and parents on these interview panels as well. Who are the people who can really answer these questions?

Reem:
Yeah, that’s a really good strategy. And I think it’s also an awareness. It’s kind of an awareness campaign because I don’t think I was thinking those things at 24 in an interview. Now, granted, I probably wouldn’t still be in the same job when I started having children. But you know, these benefits, if you will, don’t just benefit the people with children. They benefit everyone. So let’s say you are 25 and you manager has children, you might think, and they get some perks, some extra hours, whatever. I’m just being blunt to make a point. You might think, well, I don’t get that. Hopefully you would get those hours, but you might think, well, they’re out or they’re this. But if that manager isn’t supported for having their family, that manager is going to be burnt out and is going to be a wreck- is going to put probably more work on you because they’re gonna be out of the office even more. If they’re not supported, the company is not gonna be as successful if it’s leadership team is not thriving to then manage its employees. So benefits actually benefit the whole company. It’s not, doesn’t just come down to like an extra week of vacation, right? We’ve gotta think of some creative ways to support. And that kind of goes back to the burnout piece.


Rachel M:
That’s perfect. So helpful. Okay. Future. Let’s plan the future. What do you think? What do you think the rest of 2022 holds? I know that’s a ridiculous question because what even is the future, but any hopes, dreams, thoughts?


Reem:
You want me to, are we all gonna answer it?

Rachel M:
Yeah, we can all answer it. Sure. Do you, do you want me to go first?

Reem:
Yeah, you go first

Rachel M:
Okay. I’ll stay optimistic. Which is not the way I’ve been feeling ,to be perfectly honest with you for much of this year. But I think that there are enough voices out there and there’s enough solid arguments that I think companies are realizing. I don’t know if there’s gonna be any change government wise, but I’ve been seeing a lot of companies advocating for their employees. Like the most recent one is the article, Starbucks, I think just came out today saying they would pay their employees to travel for an abortion and for and trans surgeries- and so that’s been really- trans affirming surgeries, apologies. That that’s just, you know, one example of a lot of companies doing a lot to take care of their employees and realizing that they need to step up. So it’s kind of a bummer that the government isn’t doing more of it, but it has been nice to see some companies stand up.

Reem:
I love that. I love positivity. Do you want me to go, Vienna?

Vienna:
Whatever you prefer.

Reem:
I’ll go. So I echo the positivity. I think we’re all a little fried, but we weren’t having these conversations a year ago. We were philosophizing about them. But it, this whole thing has really shined a light, yes, on the change, but also that it works that people can be efficient, that there’s a whole new way of working. And that right now it’s not helping mental health and burnout, but it will, once we can land on what that is and everyone can adjust with it. I think politically ahead, we’re in for a rough ride for the rest of 2022 and beyond. And I think that’s also contributing to burnout, but in terms of women, I think the conversation has blown up and I love it. You cannot avoid the conversation. It’s everywhere. And it’s somewhat grassroots, right? A company isn’t grassroots, but if a company is responding, like you’re mentioning Rachel, that’s kind of a grassroots approach. And I love seeing that. So I’m hopeful too.

Rachel M:
Yay. Go on Vienna, bring it home.

Vienna:
What if I just like took it all down now?

Rachel M:
Safe space.

Vienna:
The optimism for me comes in with women banding together, like you were saying with formula groups, like it’s moms, it’s women, it’s non-binary folks, it’s everyone banding together and saying like, if our government’s not gonna take care of us, if some of these corporations aren’t gonna take care of us, then we’re gonna take care of each other. Yeah. And it’s something that I think from the beginning of time we just had to do, and I think that’s where my optimism comes from. Places like those online Facebook mom groups, like when one mom gets laid off or loses her job, or has a bad experience, that entire group comes together and they are cleaning up resumes. They are searching the job boards. Like they are getting that mom the best possible job saying like, you could have done better from the beginning. We’re gonna get you more money. We’re gonna prep you on like salary negotiations. It’s people having each other’s backs. And you know, if you are just watching the news, it probably doesn’t feel like that. Everything feels very divisive. But the reality is that people are coming together. And I, I love seeing like the organizations doing the advocacy work that you mentioned, they’re all pulling together. And hopefully because of these conversations that have become unavoidable, it’s gonna start working. I’m hoping,

Reem:
Yeah. One of the other ones we’ve worked with is the Office of Economic Empowerment, which, you know, most people don’t know exists, but they’re getting out there more, there’s more going on. There’s more, you know, so it is, it is that banding together.

Rachel M:
This is exciting. I just love that we ended on a positive note. That was a rough road. Okay.

Vienna:
That was. Based on how we started, I didn’t think we were gonna get here, but this is nice. This is a nice little vibe for us all today.

Rachel M:
Well, I thank you both so much for being a part of this conversation and Reem. Where can we find you?

Reem:
Momup.com. Please come find us candidates or companies. We are here.

Rachel M:
Excellent. Well, thank you all so much. Vienna. Thank you for stepping in.

Vienna:
Of course.

Reem:
Yeah. I love having you here too. This is awesome. Thank you for inviting me. Yay.


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