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LinkedIn Live: How does workplace trauma impact us? DEI Facilitator Discussion
LinkedIn Live: How does workplace trauma impact us? DEI Facilitator Discussion

Rise Together Live: Creating Cultures of Belonging with Krys Burnette

Rachel Murray, Co-founder and Co-CEO of She+ Geeks Out, spoke with Krys Burnette, Senior Director, Global Culture Transformation at Adidas about creating workplace cultures where people truly feel that they belong. Krys is a Culture Transformation Leader and talks about design thinking, influencing your organization from all levels, and approaching belonging and inclusion with an international team. Follow us on LinkedIn for more interviews and conversations with brilliant folks like Krys

Rachel M:
Hello, everybody. Welcome to our Linkedin Live with SGO. I am Rachel Murray, co-founder co-CEO of She Geeks Out, and I am so excited to introduce the incredible Krys Burnett, who we have been a long-time fan of and long-time friends with. We actually had a podcast back in 2016.

Krys:
It's been a while.

Rachel M:
It's been a minute. A lot has happened. Krys is now the Senior Director of Global Cultural Transformation for Adidas or Adidas, depending on who you are and how you feel like sharing. So, yes. Welcome so much, Krys. Thank you so much for joining.

Krys: 
Yeah, I'm happy to be here, and it's so exciting to connect with you again.

Rachel M:
Yes, same, same, same. So I want to just get right into it because there's a lot to dig into. But first, I think it'd be really nice for folks who are watching just to learn a little bit about you, a little bit about your career journey. How did you go from, when we originally met, you were a digital transformation consultant, and now you're an expert, and now you're at Adidas. So I'd love to hear about your journey.

Krys: 
Yeah. I feel like I've always been fascinated with people and culture and technology and how people adapt to change. And so I really started out as a consultant. I feel like I've always been a consultant. Even within my job right now, I still feel like I'm very much a consultant, has worked with different parts of the organization across different business units, but I really have been helping people to really think about how does technology sort of help change lives, whether it's how we best do our jobs inside of our business or how we best sort of effect the outcomes or make something easier for our customers or the citizens that we protect and things like that.

Krys: 
So I started out in the US federal government, going from a paper-based system to an online-based system, which back in 2011, you wouldn't imagine it would be something that the government was still sort of transitioning. I moved in sort of more of the mobile payment space. So, swipe and sign to tap to pay. And mobile wallet was sort of the next sort of evolution of the work that I was doing.

Krys:
And then, I moved into more of the consulting side, recognizing that agile transformation and the way we work together doesn't necessarily have to be specific to someone working in a digital context or someone working on digital products. It could be something applicable to everyday brands, right? So from the companies that make snacks and sodas to the companies that make the clothes that you buy in the stores, all of those ways of working can be beneficial, sort of more digital-first, more speed to market.

Krys: 
And then yes, I landed it at Adidas or Adidas, depending on where you're from and how you pronounce it. Really focusing, again, on sort of digital transformation and how do we shape the culture inside of the business to be more digital-focused and digital-led so that we can have better outcomes for the business and for our customers. And now currently doing that with other parts of the business, not just digital.

Krys: 
So it's really exciting work, and it's something that I've always been passionate about, and that's sort of how I live here.

Rachel M: 
That's so helpful. Thank you so much for sharing that. I would love to sort of dig in because I hear it and I sort of see like, oh, this grand vision of transformation. But what does that look like on a practical level, on a day to day, whether that's organizational transformation or digital transformation? How are they different? How are they similar?

Krys: 
Yeah. Organizational transformation is always the hardest, right, because that means you've got to bring everyone around kind of at the same-ish time. There's usually a long-term vision, a strategy that is built into what you're trying to achieve within that shift. But transformation can be small too, right? I think managers are the biggest catalysts or people who can hold back transformation. And I think leaders and managers inside of organizations can do small things to transform their culture in all sorts of ways.

Krys: 
And culture transformation can mean different things to different businesses depending on where they are and what their business goals are. But if it's, we want to do meetings differently, it can start with a leader. Just sort of thinking about, instead of doing one-hour meetings, we're going to do 30-minute meetings so that you can get back to work. Instead of the manager always leading the conversation, we're going to change facilitators, right? We want more people to be able to have an opportunity to speak, be engaged, and share their ideas with the rest of the group.

Krys: 
I mean, there's all these little habits, and those little habits add up to culture, and that culture can transform not just your team, but the team next to you, the team that you work with, your entire business unit, or an organization. So it might sound overwhelming when you think about organizational transformation, but change is happening every single day, whether we want to change or not. And I think it's really up to our leaders and our managers to really sort of help the team and help their part of the business sort of go on that journey together, and make sure that whatever shift you're moving towards can be sort of codified into the culture by seeing what works and saying, we're going to stick to this thing because the organization is either doing it really well or it's something that everyone likes. And I think it's just trial and error, you know?

Rachel M: 
Yeah. So that makes me want to ask a question that wasn't on the list if you're comfortable answering it. Which is, I'm curious to know, because you mentioned meetings, which I love that example because we talk a lot about that and how that can be really impactful, are there other sort of particular examples that you've found that have had sort of moved that needle a little bit more successfully than others? More quickly or sort of like low-hanging fruit?

Krys:
Yeah. I think one of the things that I see in a lot of different organizations, right? So I'm not talking about Adidas specifically, but as my time as a consultant, roles and responsibilities are the number one thing that I think that teams struggle with. So what's the work to be done? How do we break those goals or those objectives down into manageable tasks? And how do we assign that work to the people who are a part of the team? It sounds simple, but it can be very challenging when you have different sort of personalities, different roles that kind of are similar. A lot of titles might be project manager, so not everyone can be a project manager, but it's like, what part of this project are you owning? And making sure that is super, super crystal clear from the beginning at the kickoff of a project.

Krys:
That to me is, I think is, a very low-hanging fruit, and it really, really is sort of the leader of that team to set that up from the beginning. I think the other part of that is really setting up the agreements on how a team is going to work best together. So do we have a standup meeting every single day? Do we have it once a week? How often are we going to take time to pause and reflect on how the work is going? Those sort of agreements. And it doesn't have to be 10 agreements, it can be three. And then you can build more agreements as you go. But I think those two things. Clear roles and responsibility, setting up sort of agreements from the beginning, are the lowest hanging fruit that any sort of team leader or project manager can set up from the beginning.

Krys:
And when we talk about getting into the work and helping give people sense of autonomy, that's a little bit harder, but it can be done. But it makes it harder to do those types of things by giving people autonomy if they don't know what they're actually accountable for and what they have to get done. So I think that from the beginning helps to build trust helps to build understanding. And I think those are the two lowest hanging fruits at any team, in any organization, whether it's your nonprofit organization, your PTA club, all of those teams, or those organizations or people who come together around a common goal can start to use.

Rachel M: 
I love that so much. And I can't help, but like giggle because our team has grown from me and Felicia to now, we're like a team of 10 ish. And we're like, oh my gosh, roles and responsibilities. Back in the day, I'd be like, have an idea. Okay. Go do it. Okay. It's done. But now, you're totally right. We have to, and we are doing that. It is so important because you see that there are people who either... A lot of what I see is like a fear of toe stepping, so it's like, I don't want to step, and then so then the ball gets dropped, not even intentionally. So I love that. I think that's perfect. Roles and responsibilities and agreements, chef's kiss to that answer. So yes, love that.

Krys: 
It's important to write things down. It sounds like you and Felicia had this very implicit understanding of who's going to do what, but when you get past sort of the four or five-person mark, that's when we've got to write things down and make sure, okay, we've written it down. Does everyone agree? So that you have that clarity.

Rachel M: 
Yeah. Clarity. Totally agree with that. Thank you so much for stating the obvious, and yet it seems so pedestrian, but it's still so important to remember that. So thank you for sharing that. I'd love to talk a little bit because it's really interesting how you're in Germany working for this company and you're own American. And when I think about sort of cross-cultural shifts and understanding, I think you're sort of in the cross-section of that. And there's so much happening in the US. I think there's obviously a lot of awareness now around our racial history and our current racial issues in this country. And then, obviously, Germany has also really been steeped in a lot of racial issues in history. And so I'm curious to know, sort of how that works for you in the work that you do? Is that a place that you intersect in that work, and if so, how does that show up?

Krys: 
Yeah, it's a really good question. And I think one thing that I've recognized when it comes to sort of these topics of diversity, equity, and inclusion, is one of the biggest exports that America has is culture. Whether it's music, Hollywood, TV, it's one of our biggest exports. So people, even if they have never lived in the US, they have a general context of what the culture is like based off of television, music, politics, right? I think that's our biggest export. And then when I think about sort of working in these global organizations, so it doesn't matter if you're sitting in the US, you're sitting in Germany, or if you're sitting in somewhere like South Africa. If you're working for a large international business, you are going to run into cultures that you're either not familiar with or don't have a full understanding of.

Krys: 
Right now, I feel the sort of racial and social justice issues that are happening across the world have been hyper-focused on what's happening in the US. And so that creates an opportunity for conversation. Now, we can't expect everyone around the world to truly understand what's happening, but I think the most important thing for businesses right now, whether it's something happening in the US or in the UK or something happening in Germany itself, is really to be able to open the conversation for a dialogue. Allow people and create safe spaces for people to ask questions. And I always feel like leaders are often nervous to either have the conversation, facilitate the conversation. And that's probably because you don't know what to say, and it's okay to just say that. Look, I don't have the answers, but I want to hold this space for us to have a conversation and make sure that happening in your life, [inaudible 00:13:04]. We can acknowledge [inaudible 00:13:05].

Krys: 
And as a leader, I can either support you if you need a mental health day off, or you need some time away because you're feeling distracted today, or is it something that you can advocate for on behalf of your team or your team member? I think when it comes to culture, when we think about sort of the social landscape that influences the work that we do internally, it's not about having the right answers. It's about asking questions and co-creating solutions with your team versus for your team. And there's no sort of playbook, right? Things constantly change.

Krys:
And I think when it comes to the topics of diversity, equity, inclusion, or some of these bigger topics, like race, social justice, and the things that we are seeing in the news right now, it's really about holding space and making sure that you have the right mechanisms in place for people to step away, take the time away so that they can disengage for some time, to come back and be fully engaged. Or, set aside some time to understand how does this moment affect our customer?

Krys: 
Even if you don't have the right answer, it's about asking questions and really being able to brainstorm together on something that might sort of support the work in different ways. And I think that's what customers are looking for, whether it's our internal customer, our team, or if it's the customer who's buying our product, right? They want us to feel like we give a damn. And so I think that's the biggest thing here is you don't have to have the right answers. You just have to sort of come together and brainstorm what's the right next step, even if it's not a full big solution from the beginning.

Rachel M:
So wise. So now I have a hard question for you related to that. So I think that what I'm hearing from you is that this is great advice for leaders who are in positions of power. There are so many folks that don't have that level of influence, who maybe are trying to convince their leadership to take a more proactive role, to use their voice, to use their positions. We're seeing companies certainly doing that more probably than I've ever seen it that I can recall, but there are still a lot that are pushing back, that are either not saying anything because they're scared to say something. Do you have any advice for folks that maybe are interested in trying to make change within their organization but don't have that level of influence?

Krys:
Oh, that's such a good question. I feel like different businesses are set up in different ways in terms of how you can sort of come together. And, again, if you are not in a sort of sphere of influence, or if you're not in a leadership position where you can start to make decisions on behalf of a group of people or behalf of the company, it can be challenging. And I can truly understand sort of that sentiment of wanting to make a change but not being really sure what to do. And I think there are a couple of different avenues people could take, right?

Krys: 
So a lot of large global organizations will have employee resource groups where, whether it's the black employee network or it's the LGBTQ employee network, there are groups of people who already exist or might already exist where you can tap in and see how they're creating sort of change or policies within the organization. That might not be applicable to all markets, but I think Europe and North America tend to have those sorts of resource groups.

Krys: 
The other thing is sort of having a mentor that you trust or a manager that you trust. Someone that you can reach out to and say, hey, these are the things that are impacting the world or impacting our customers and impacting us internally as well. What are the types of things that we could do to make change internally or externally when it comes to speaking to our customers?

Krys:
Some companies are just really, really bold and out there, right? Patagonia is really, really bold. They have a very clear vision on where they stand, and when something happens, they're usually the first to set the tone. Not always, but they often set the tone or the playbook of how things can be done. Now, they're a private company, so it's a little bit different. And I do understand that leaders might struggle with what do we do that's best for the business, right? Making sure we're keeping our shareholders happy and making sure we're keeping the market happy on what we're saying and where we stand on these issues, but then there's just the right thing to do.

Krys:
And so, I think that in order to know what the right thing to do is, you have to have a really strong mission and purpose as an organization. And so when you have these sort of crossroads as a leader, I think it's one of those moments where you have to say, okay, what is our mission and purpose of this organization? If our mission is this, and this is something that we think is important to us as a business and what we stand for, we might have to do something, or maybe we have to try something that might be difficult or might create some buzz that might not be wanted. But it's that willingness to sort of understand, do we take a stand because it's the right thing to do, it's part of our mission and purpose? Or do we do nothing, and maybe it goes away.

Krys: 
I'm not sure, but I do understand how it can be difficult for some leaders to figure out what's the right path to take. But my sense is a lot of leaders and a lot of the leadership that I've worked with within the past, they want to do the right thing. So I think sort of really taking that ownership, sort of speaking up and figuring out if we want to do the right thing, what's the best thing that we can do in these sort of times, I think is an opportunity that could potentially do more good than harm. And I think there's this fear of what if we get it wrong? But I think doing nothing is worse than trying to do something that stands for your mission, purpose, and values.

Rachel M: 
Unless it's making ice cream. [inaudible 00:19:41] I mean, that is the fear. And I guess one way, maybe, to overcome those is to bring other voices in the room when you're trying to make decisions.

Krys: 
Totally, absolutely. And I think that goes back to what I was saying before, where you don't have to have the answers as a leader. I think really great leaders know when to ask the right questions or ask questions when they don't have the answers. I think it's the influence that leadership has that can move the needle a lot further than someone who is not in a position of decision-making power.

Rachel M:
Yeah. Thank you for taking that on, that large question. And relatedly, I would like to sort of dig into design thinking, because I think that's been a part of your work and how that sort of... Can you talk a little bit about what design thinking is and how that relates to this work that we're talking about?

Krys:
Yeah. I think design thinking is a methodology that has been used in all types of context, whether it's designing a physical product, whether it's designing an experience, or whether it's designing your organization or strategy. And I think the core principles of design thinking is to look at things from the perspective of who is going to be affected by this. And when I think about organizations and culture, I think systems like HR or systems like people operations, those systems have a really, really unique opportunity because their customer is sitting right down the hall.

Krys: 
And so, you have the opportunity to utilize design thinking. You have your sort of users there with you on a day-to-day basis. So you have an opportunity to make changes for them and with them internally. There are all types of things that I think people can do differently or organizations like HR or people operations can do differently that better serve their employees. And I think that there are also legal restrictions that come on top of that, that might sort of put some things on hold or might have to wait. But I do think that there's a unique opportunity to get and gather feedback, design, new experiences, new policies, new procedures for people.

Krys: 
And I think the most important thing is that when we ask for this input, or we start experimenting with these new types of designs or opportunities, that we share the progress along the way, whether it's good or bad. I think trust and transparency when it comes to changing systems for employees is one of the most important things that can either improve engagement or make engagement not so great for employees.

Krys:
And I also think that when we're talking about large organizations, we have to understand that there are different types of skill sets and different types of people. There's typically not a one size fits all solution, especially once you get into the thousands or tens of thousands of employees. And so understanding that regionally, things might look different. Skills wise, things might look different. But I think it's important to understand that design thinking can be a huge catalyst for making change for your employees so that they fully show up ready to work and not feel distracted or slowed down by process.

Rachel M:
Oh my gosh, there's not a one size fits all solution for everything? That's so frustrating. [inaudible 00:23:34]. All humans are different, and it takes a lot of different... It's so true. We talk about that with our work too. It's like, if we had all the answers, we'd just have a book. And then just sell it, and then we'd be done with our work and then everything would be fixed, and everyone would be happy.

Rachel M: 
So I want to talk a little bit about some of the highlights, some of the good stuff that's happened that you've seen that's been really successful with organizational transformation. And I do want to get into digital transformation too. I don't want to leave that aside as well to talk a little bit about web three. But we'll talk a little bit about highlights there and then transition to future you and future of the world.

Krys: 
Yeah. So remind me the question again? Sorry.

Rachel M: 
Highlights around organizational transformation you've seen, what's worked?

Krys: 
Yeah. I think the only way that transformation works is if leadership believes that the transformation can happen and is enabling those changes to exist. Without that, no transformation is going to work. It might work for a couple of months or as long as your consultants are in the room, but it has to be something that the leadership believes in because, despite the efforts that I think a lot of organizations take to make themselves less hierarchical, more autonomous, leadership sets the tone all of the time, every single time. And so I think that is the only path to success- is if the leadership not only believes and enables, but also lives those behaviors at the same time. Calls out behaviors that are the things that they want to see for the future every single time. Hands down, that's the only path to success.

The only way that transformation works is if leadership believes that the transformation can happen and is enabling those changes to exist. Without that, no transformation is going to work. It might work for a couple of months or as long as your consultants are in the room, but it has to be something that the leadership believes in…That is the only path to success- is if the leadership not only believes and enables, but also lives those behaviors at the same time. Calls out behaviors that are the things that they want to see for the future every single time.

Krys Burnette

Krys: 
And what success looks like when leadership is engaged in setting not just the business targets, so like the things that we need to sell and how often and when they happen, but also setting those organizational transformation targets. So if you are going from culture A to culture B, leadership needs to set those targets with their managers or with their team leaders and make sure that everyone in the leadership path is accountable for making sure that change happens.

Krys:
I've seen that, and that has been the biggest catalyst to transformation. And it might not be something like KPI with a dollar number behind it, right? Because it's hard to say the culture transformation is leading to this business outcome. It's really hard to find that metric, but what we can do is measure employee sentiment because our employees are right there in the room—and not only measuring that sentiment but making sure that every time you measure or ask for feedback, that feedback is being heard and implemented into the next course of the work, right? That we're being clear on what those changes are going to be, and that we're allowing for co-creation in some of the new things that we're putting into place.

Krys:
And so I think it's leadership, it's clarity and transparency. It's definitely setting that accountability in terms of business targets. I mean, as soon as you tell a leader, this people metric is going to be attached to your bonus, then the incentive becomes a lot greater. People actually will do... They think of it as a priority because their leader has told them that it's a priority by tying it to a financial incentive which, for whatever reason, motivates people, a lot of people.

Krys:
So those are the things that I feel have been the most successful when it comes to culture transformation that I've seen. And I would love to be challenged on that by other professionals in this space. But honestly, those are the biggest things that I think will lead to transformation success.

Rachel M: 
Yeah. That's really, really helpful. I read, or I heard something someone shared, I think it was Simon Sinek who was actually talking about that. And that's the way people do it, is they incentivize via what are the outcomes? And he had this really interesting take around what he was saying, was that a lot of times, what will happen is leaders will end up delegating the work to their staff. And so they're not really doing any of the work, and yet, if they're successful, they get a lot of credit for it.

Rachel M:
And then he was saying that one of the things that could be a way to address it is to actually have the actions be in consideration rather than just the outcomes, especially I think with DEI work because it's so squishy. And so sometimes you might try ten different things, and maybe a little bit will move the needle and have some positive effect, but it's not necessarily clear. So it's sort of like, sometimes it's rewarding even the effort, let alone the outcome. So I don't know what you think of that, but I'd be curious to hear.

Krys: 
Yeah. I think, well, one of the things that you asked before is, how do people who aren't leaders create impact in sort of creating change? And I think the scenario that you're talking about is very, very common, right? So it's like, we have this people topic and then it's usually delegated to someone who is a little bit more junior to show that they have leadership capability or something. It's like a stretch assignment, which is a good thing.

Krys: 
And I'm not saying that's a bad approach, but if the leadership isn't held accountable for making sure that work not just happens but it creates change. So if we have overall employee sentiment is 30% and the target is 50% and we're not hitting that target, I think it can't be the accountability of someone who is three years into their career. That needs to be something that is held accountable by someone who is more tenured. And I think when you talk about sort of showing what the actions are, I think that is a part of not just accountability, but transparency. And I think that a lot of trust and rebuilding trust means being a little bit more clear on what we're trying to do and communicating that, but also it's okay to be vulnerable and say, hey, this isn't working, we failed at that. We're not hitting this people target or this people metric. What are we doing wrong?

Krys:
Now, I think a lot of people are willing to ask that question and gather feedback and do listening sessions and surveys. And I feel like, I think since 2020, maybe employees are getting a little bit exhausted of surveys, but I think the most important thing is if you are going to ask for feedback... I love the cat. If you're going to ask-

Rachel M: 
Sorry about that.

Krys: 
It's OK. If you're going to ask for feedback, do something with it. Don't just ask for it, and then it kind of gets deprioritized because there's another business goal that is more important. I think people want to feel just as important to the business as the business.

Rachel M:
Yeah. I love that. Thank you so much. And thank you for allowing Monty to say hello. I appreciate that. I'm going to take you off the hot seat for that. And I would love to sort of dive into sort of the future, a little bit about transformation, web three. I was so fortunate to to actually see you in person in New York when we were together. You were teaching me all sorts of things about web three. So I wanted to just talk a little bit about that. Tell us, tell us a little bit more.

Krys: 
Yeah. So I think organizations are understanding that the metaverse, web three, is here, right? Not that it's coming, it's here. And they're asking questions like, what does this mean for our business? What is it that we want to be aware of? What do we need to know? And when we think about transformation and we think about where we were in 2000 when we had technology, where we were in 2010, where we are in 2020, and now where we're sort of evolving to. I think by 2030, we're going to see that the technology that we're using today is going to be fundamentally different than the technology that we'll be using in eight or nine years.

Krys:
And so I think what organizations want to do is start thinking about, what are the things... I'm not talking about new business models. You can, you can definitely talk about that, but what are the things that we need to be aware of as businesses, as business leaders, so that we can sort of get in front of the conversation and start to build for whatever it is that we might want to have as part of our business strategy?

Krys: 
And I think one of the first things that leaders can do to educate themselves is just start observing things on LinkedIn, on Twitter. I call Twitter, Twitter University because that's where I learned the most around web three. But when we're thinking about people and culture and sort of what that transformation shift is, I think we've got sort of gen Z who has been looking at screens their entire lives, right? So it's a little bit of a different group of people. And then we have gen alpha, which is coming in and they'll be sort of joining the workforce very soon as well.

Krys: 
The way that they think about technology and systems is going to be very different than even us millennials who have been working for the last 15 years. So I think there's a couple of things that we want to think about as business leaders. What does the technology mean, and what does it mean for our business? Do we want to sort of play in this space? Or do we want to just observe and wait? Some businesses are in it already. Of course, Meta rebranded themselves strategically to sound like they are the metaverse, which isn't necessarily the case. But then how do you just sort of join the conversation, listen, and observe?

Krys:
When we think about people, I think the most important thing for businesses is how do we employ people who, if you decide to sort of navigate into web three, NFTs, sort of the metaverse, what types of skills do you need to be thinking about? So I think some of the hot skills are blockchain technology, understanding smart contracts, understanding cryptocurrency, and what that means, and how do you accept it as a business? What are the tax implications?

Krys: 
And then there's sort of the skill side, which is, are you going to need 3D designers? So that's a huge skill that you can train for or you can acquire. Either way, it might be something that you want to consider. And then what's the right way to create an employment contract within this web three space? I think the most important thing for business leaders when it comes to web three is that it's more of a creator economy versus a platform economy, which we're used to, right? So we have our Google accounts. Everyone's using Google. You can buy different products and services from Google or Facebook, these larger platforms.

Krys: 
And now what we're seeing is that creators sell their creations, right? And so if we are looking at understanding creators and how they are important to this next sort of shift in technology, I think what we'll have to do, and what we see in traditional hierarchies, is that the creators, the makers, are kind of at the bottom of the hierarchy, right? They're sort of given an overview of what they need to build and that they go ahead and they build that. But what I think we're seeing is a flip of that in web three, where the creators are given more freedom, but also are the most important part of the ecosystem. So the people who held MBAs before are usually at the top or the highest paid, but I think in this web three system, creators can be, and probably will be, the highest paid because they are going to be the most important into this next economy.

Krys: 
So it's definitely a shift. I don't know the answers. I just know the questions that I'm asking, and I'm trying to find the answers. There's no true expert in this space right now. I think we're all kind of learning as we go, but there's so many different things to consider. So I would just suggest listening, observing, asking questions is the best route to go right now. And if you think you're behind, if a business leader thinks they're behind, you're not. I think slow and steady in this space is going to be better for your business than sort of jumping right in because you feel like you might miss out on the moment.

Krys:
And I think that's what we're seeing right now. There are a lot of players in 2021. And now in 2022, you're starting to see the people who are coming in, who are truly in it for the right reasons and want to stick around in this space. So it's just a matter of really listening and observing right now. And then sort of getting into what you think is most important for your business going forward.

Rachel M: 
Wow. Well, I feel good because, no, this was great because I feel like, as we talked about before, I feel like an idiot when it comes to this stuff. So this is really, really helpful to make... I feel better now, knowing that it's just in such its infancy that I haven't missed the boat. I'm okay, can still learn more. So you mentioned Twitter University. Are there any other podcasts or books or, probably not even books, but like any other resources that you would recommend people dive into?

Krys: 
That's a good question. Honestly, Twitter has been the place that I've been observing the most, and I would say Twitter spaces are where you're going to find people talking and asking each other questions. Other than that, I think I don't have a really good... I think LinkedIn is doing a lot better. I guess it depends on who you follow, right? But I would be happy to put together a list for you with some suggestions on people to sort of follow and sort of thought leaders in this space. I love learning about it just because culturally, it's new. Organizations are talking about it. It's a brand new technology that could either help us as a people, as a culture, as our customers. Or maybe it won't. We don't know yet. I think what we are dealing with right now in terms of web three is a lot of people have looked at it from the NFT space, very much sort of this art, this collector commodity space, which I think is okay for now.

Krys: 
But if we're trying to look into mass adoption, we're going to have to start thinking about what problems can we solve for people. And I don't know if anyone truly has an answer for that right now. And I think you can always have the commodity space, and maybe that might only be what it ever will be. And that's okay. But I think there's so many other applications that web three and NFTs could provide. I think it's just a matter of what's going to be the thing that people need versus just have because it kind of feels like it's cool. Like everyone, [inaudible 00:39:46] because it's cool. But it doesn't necessarily mean you need it.

Rachel M: 
Yeah. And it's only perpetuating greater wealth. It's like wealthy people just buying the really expensive NFTs and then theoretically, more money. Are there any applications that you're seeing that are potential for good beyond commodity?

Krys:
Yeah. I mean, there are some people trying to do really, really cool stuff, right? So they're taking these art collections and turning them into stories. So there's one company, in particular, that has artwork that they look like little wooden characters, and they're building a story which might become a film or might become a book series, where they teach people about conservation and deforestation. And so it's sort of like a learning and an education element, but it obviously has an art NFT attached to it.

Krys: 
There are people thinking about buying and selling cars and houses as NFTs because it can be applied in that way, which is interesting. I don't know if that makes things easier for people. I think it sort of cuts out the middleman, but I don't know if it makes it easier for people just generally. There are NFTs that are funding projects, like conserving part of the Amazonian forest and also giving back to local Amazonian farmers and people who cultivate the land for food production. So there are opportunities like that I think are happening.

Krys: 
But if you don't know, you don't know. And I think, what I'm seeing, some of the larger companies playing the space are things like loyalty programs, right? So you have a loyalty program, and it's kind of like your NFT is a ticket into that program, and you get certain perks for it, which is great. And I don't know if it makes it easier for your customer, but you don't need an NFT to do that. You can create a loyalty program without using this really sophisticated technology just yet.

Krys: 
So I think right now we're starting to see a lot of different things come. I've seen things like women's empowerment projects, so connecting mentors to women who are younger in their career. Those types of things I think are great. How we scale that, I think, these are some of the questions that these sort of projects and sort of web three companies are starting to ask. And there are big players coming into this space, big-name celebrities jumping in. So it's interesting to see what will come out of it.

Rachel M: 
Not boring at all.

Krys:
Yeah.

Rachel M:
Not at all. Yeah. Thank you, Krys. That was really, really helpful. And I think I'm just so excited to see what the future holds. And I'm so glad that you're part of the conversation because I think that it will benefit from your wisdom and your insights. And hopefully, we'll stay away from the harm track that sometimes technology causes and veer more towards the causing good and help out track. Is there anything else you would like to share with the SGO LinkedIn community before we wrap this up? And I say goodbye.

Krys:
Yeah, for sure. I think when it comes to culture and when it comes to culture transformation, what I would like to share with your community is that there's no end. Even if the project ends, the work still continues even after the consultants leave. It's then the leadership needs to fully own sort of the continuation of that work. Reading, listening to podcasts, asking questions of your employees. Those are the pieces of information that I think are going to help you sort of sustain your transformation and understanding that it's a learning journey that's going to go on forever. It never truly ends. And the more that leadership sort of creates that accountability within the system and sets the system up to acknowledge and enable that change to exist, the more likely it's going to stick in the long term.

Rachel M:
Couldn't agree with you more. We have two sayings at SGO. I will not take credit for, it's the lovely facilitation team. One is, the work is not the workshop. And two is, it's a marathon, not a sprint. So absolutely, totally agree. Thank you so much for sharing all of your insights, Krys. I really appreciate your time, and thanks to everyone who watched. And this will be available for future as well.

Krys: 
Cool.

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